An Oath Worth Remembering !

By MAYS Latest Reply 2010-02-15 07:39:41 -0600
Started 2010-02-05 09:36:29 -0600

Our Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath but do they practice it ?

Read it, take a few minutes and think about it, then ask yourself, " Does my doctor act in accordance or believe in this oath " ?

Remember it's your opinion, not verifiable fact !
(Share your thoughts on this if you may)

Upon graduation, many medical students take this modern version of the oath written by Louis Lasagna, Academic Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University, in 1964.

The Hippocratic Oath (Modern Version)

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

59 replies

Pat Roth
Pat Roth 2010-02-07 13:39:44 -0600 Report

I saw my own regular Dr Fri, he read me the results of my MRI which said I had a growth on my LEFT kidney, the left kidney was the one that they removed last Sept! He kept mumbling about whether to have me get a cat scan to "make sure" said he thot my case warranted it etc—-I WONDERED why he was so hesitant—

Well, at church this morn an RN friend of mine, told me that often MRI;s make mistakes, finding gall bladders that aren't there etc—-I do wish my Dr had told me WHY he was so hesitant, I THOUGHT he just didn't want to upset me, or maybe didn't even CARE—you know, that old low self-esteem thing—but now I am not so worried—-it PROBABLY ISn't anything, BUT I will pursue the cat scan—to KNOW for SURE!! Pat R

imsuzie2 2010-02-07 17:37:01 -0600 Report

Any chance it was an OLD MRI that got mixed up at reading? How scary, and how nice of the RN to talk to you about that. Hey, we found 1 nice church lady among the bitches!!!

Pat Roth
Pat Roth 2010-02-07 18:50:54 -0600 Report

You bet, Suzie!! One at a time!! haha—I had never had an MRI before, so don't know—-I had 2 ft of colon removed in 2001, plus a lot of adhesions, plus the kidney and mass, so my insides probably arent where they should be anyway. I think I read on these sites where one patient's appendix was under his arm pit!! Go figure!! So, who knows?!! PR

imsuzie2 2010-02-07 21:49:48 -0600 Report

Minister that did not make Pat feel good. Gave her some choice things to say to him about his attitude not being Christian-like.

Danni-the-diabetic 2010-02-07 20:21:26 -0600 Report

LOL suzie! Are you calling church people bitches or nurses bitches? Or am i just wrong because I am getting in the middle of a conversation; eavesdropping and coming to the wrong conclusion, assuming the wrong thing (I tend to do that often).

imsuzie2 2010-02-07 21:54:40 -0600 Report

The church ladies have been bitchy to Pat for far too long. A nurse was nice to her in church…so, 1 nice one and the rest bitches.

Danni-the-diabetic 2010-02-07 22:00:02 -0600 Report

Oh Gotcha! How are church people going to be mean!? I mean, I've seen it before, but that's hypocritical and just not nice. I was about to start working with the youth two years ago, until the youth minister found out who my mom is and gave me the cold shoulder, that's when i stopped going. (the minister was a cop that didn't like my mom cause she was friends with sheriff and got out of a ticket that he wrote her)

imsuzie2 2010-02-07 22:15:12 -0600 Report

I think that is for Pat to share, but I've told her from my sis-in-laws I know how real Christians are…spiritual and loving and accepting. Not at her church. Oh, I'm Jewish.

Danni-the-diabetic 2010-02-07 23:18:24 -0600 Report

I meant that as a general question; I've experienced people at church being judgemental and all that not so good stuff. It just extremely pisses me off. I'm christian, but don't have a specific religion.

Pat Roth
Pat Roth 2010-02-07 23:39:18 -0600 Report

You probably wouldn't believe if I could tell you! It is really up to God, I am tired and just learning to accept them as they are, not as I wish they were! It really defies description! Hugs, and Thanks for your kind words!!!! PR

imsuzie2 2010-02-13 06:04:48 -0600 Report

I agree that the majority of the Christians I have met (and in this I mean, Catholics, Lutherans, some Mormons {have met a few…great story if I would not offend anyone}, Baptists and other denominations I don't know) are spiritual, loving, accepting, have an inner glow that shines…and that is why the stories I have heard from Pat rub ME the wrong way. The people in her church did not display any of these attributes. Heck, some Jews I know don't either! And, it is mostly these Christians I know that are the most loving and accepting and I just love them. They are the ones who mostly live the Golden Rule. And, they are better people than I am!

Pat Roth
Pat Roth 2010-02-13 09:41:38 -0600 Report

You know what?? I think that God planted me in that very church of strict rules, to lead the way to feeling natural and human once more!! I think that those folks were trying so HARD to be PERFECT, so they could feel like they were Heaven bound—-now some are also falling apart, mostly from their own rigid rules—-I CONSOLED a woman, one that had dealt ME the most pain, that "It is OK to NOT be able to GO,Go, Go—it happens!!" "But I was so EMBARRASSED !!" (just because she couldn't keep going to EVERYTHING—-grandkids are so important to her, but their ballgames and other activities are many miles away—she is almost 80 yrs—she used to brag in front of me, when I was so exhausted I couldn't get out of bed——that she went more hours and lost more sleep than I ever had—and SHE WAS OK——-made me feel like a dunce——
Now she is there—I told her she should feel PROUD, not embarrassed, as I fell apart years before she did—but I am showing her mercy and forgiveness, NOT retaliating against her—-treat others as you wish you had been treated—-NOT as they treated you—-no end to THAT misery!!

So life goes on, but think now that others in the church are understanding me better——maybe some day they will even wish that they had been more understanding and kinder to ME! But I will not hold my breath, as Now, I KNOW!! Hugs, PR

We can be Christians, but that doesn't mean that we are all understanding—that human element intervenes!!

donna13 2010-02-13 10:02:44 -0600 Report

Pat, I admit to not being a religious person, but I can't help but wonder why you kept going to a church that made you feel so bad about yourself. Weren't there other churches in your area, even in the same demomination? I admire your attitude with this woman, I'm sure I couldn't be as forgiving.

Pat Roth
Pat Roth 2010-02-13 16:12:40 -0600 Report

I know that it looks foolish, but that is the church where our children were raised, I run into all of those people down town—it is a very small town—the problem was the whole town knew of my emotional instability, so my reserved treatment would not have been any different in another church, I know all of those folks too, and they know me—for years, and had formed incorrect assumptions about me (being NUTS!) and I knew that I would have to disprove those conceptions, no matter where I went and as it was not a matter of leaving town (although I was sorely TEMPTED!!!) I had my aging mother to care for and to consider—-and it also seemed, to me, like a cowards' way out, the easy way, which is never easy anyway, so stick to what I was USED to, and PROVE by my actions, that I was NOT like many ASSUMED! It is like getting a divorce, you only carry your own problems and coping skills, with you, so there is really no running!!

Don't worry, I STRONGLY thought of all sorts of OUTS—BUT—kept coming back to Proving myself here—and where others THOUGHT that they knew me, I did not want to leave anyone thinking that they were RIGHT!!! Because, they weren't, and I had to prove to myself, and THEM that I was a good person!! So, that is why I stayed and fought, and can now say, I am glad that I did it this way, although I was so TEMPTED to RUN!! Pat R

imsuzie2 2010-02-13 20:22:47 -0600 Report

Ok, so I am a coward and would have found a different place of worship. Told you that you were a strong person, Pat. More power to you! Hugs

Pat Roth
Pat Roth 2010-02-14 23:36:07 -0600 Report

Thanks, girls!! I guess I am strong, my psychiatrist says so, but what does he know?? hahah- There were several times I was so angry and hurt I was mad at him as I THOUGHT I wanted to be locked up in an insane asylum, away from having to work thru the pain, learn better coping skills—-then my stubborn PRIDE would kick in, and I would rebell—-NO, I WILL NOT LET People do that to me—-they just don't "get it" and I gradually quit EXPECTING them to pat me on the back, offer me encouragement, as they did NOT have it to give, at least not to me! I don't know if the fact that they all owned their own farms and we were "hired help" made a difference or not—-I liked to think that they were above that, but maybe not—-others aren't as PERFECT as I had thought, and in comparison, I was NOTHING__Was trying to follow their verbal example of HUmILity—-but I WENT TOO FAR!! So moderation, I decided and know who you are, accept that and stand up for yourself, and know that God does NOT make trash!! It took me most of my life to learn and live all of that—-but I think now that I have!! AMEN!! Pat R

donna13 2010-02-07 09:42:50 -0600 Report

I am blessed with good doctors, so far they have all listened to me and treated me accordingly. But like all of you, I have been to some that didn't do this. There are real crooks in this business, as some of the above posts have said, but I think that is a rare. The "bad" doctors I have encountered have one thing in common, a GOD complex. They think they know best and do not listen to their patients. Some I have had tried to put a spin on test results to prove their original dx was correct when that dx was disproven.

Danni-the-diabetic 2010-02-07 16:49:08 -0600 Report

I like your "GOD complex" statement. I live in a smaller military town with a small hospital and it is horrible. I have gone there when I had stomach flu and sugars read "HI" and they told me to drink water before hooking me up to IVs and they are slow and misread things. Nobody goes there unless they have no choice, but we learned that the hard way; we took my neice there, after she was discharged with a prescription of antibiotics they found she had an infection in her blood but failed to notify my sister. A day later she went to her pediatrition, he put put her in the hospital in Savannah with a prescription of antibiotics in her IV (in the meantime no one was still not notified about infection in her blood), the charge nurse didnt put it in until five hours later…she died the next morning. So that's why I dont trust Dr.s, especially when it comes to children. Their pediatrition is great, other than that, if I dont know them than it's a different story. It's their fault at two different hospitals that my niece is gone…she died 3 weeks before her 3rd birthday. Maybe it's just the south, or Ga. I trust God allowed this to happen for a reason, I just dont know why, maybe I will never know til I die. But it's not fair to use and it wasnt fair of the dr.s for their neglect. Sorry bout the ranting, I just miss her and I am angry about it.

imsuzie2 2010-02-07 17:44:00 -0600 Report

Danni, I too am so sorry to hear of your loss. I can't imagine the devastation of losing a child, altho I have past experience with friends and family, unless it is yours…or, maybe as I get older, and have a child (even tho he is 35), it means so much more to me now.

I have to ask, who is that lovely child in your picture? As it is small, and I have "old eyes", I thought it might be you…and I keep thinking what a "wise young lady" you are.

My step-bro is an ER doc in Savannah, I think it is St Joesph-Chandler, and he also has a practice that supplies ER docs to a number of hospitals in the area. If you are in Savannah, I could ask for recommendations for you…

Danni-the-diabetic 2010-02-07 20:14:06 -0600 Report

Thank you Suzie. Wow, really in Savannah!? Umm, I go to St. Josephs, but I'm iffy about Chandler (they're affiliated, but separate hospitals), because of my niece, Ella. But the recommendation would be great, thanks! He probably heard about her case, I think the hospitals all had a meeting about her, making sure to take better precautions again.
The person in my default picture is me, it was taken last November, and in my profile pictures the little girl is my Ella. I think I have the picture of her dressing like a princess, for she put on her princess clothes everyday lol it was "mandatory" for her.

imsuzie2 2010-02-07 20:25:06 -0600 Report

Ok, what recommendations do you need? Endo, PCP? Step-bro, his wife and 12 others were in Haiti on a medical mission the Sat before the earthquake, so were there on the ground running to help for 3 days before leaving the country on that Friday. The mission was their church and St Joseph-Chandler. Good people.

The picture here looks older than 3…look up several posts, about 15 hrs ago. S2

Danni-the-diabetic 2010-02-07 20:55:13 -0600 Report

I have a PCP, but I don't have an Endo, the only reason/problem for that is that I am lacking health insurance and everything is too expensive.
What church do they go to? Savannah Christian went, I believe and the church I use to go to before I moved went, First Baptist Richmond Hill.
So you're talking about the picture by my name? That's me 3 months ago, I thought Nov, but it was taken right before Christmas. If you go under my "photos", that's Ella, at least I think I have a pic of her, if not than I need to put a pic of her.

imsuzie2 2010-02-07 21:45:29 -0600 Report

You look like you are 12! I will ask Brian for recommendations. Their church is Grace Church of the Islands…or at least that is where I sent the donation for Haiti. This is the video link for the TV show on a local station… And the church is:

Grace Church of the Islands
6901 Concord Rd.
Savannah, GA 31410

Anne56 2010-02-07 08:34:43 -0600 Report

What I have long remembered from the Hippocratic Oath is this: First, do no harm.

It is sad to read comments from people here regarding doctors who are careless in the sense of not caring and supporting their patients. So many reasons, I hear, such as lack of adequate time for each consultation. Some doctors have come into the profession through Ego, Arrogance, and Greed. Many people do not have the luxury of changing doctors. Many people are without insurance and must rely on whatever assistance they can get.

There are amazing people who are doctors, of course. I have had the privilege of knowing some. Hank Adams comes to mind — and he works with thousands of new doctors each year. Doctors Without Borders… and so many individuals that we will never know or hear about…

I care very much for my fellow journeymen&women. For me and I would guess many of us, this venue of peer support, peppered with the availability of experts, is a phenomenal adjunct to whatever other help we attain "out there". Though frankly, I actually think of my doctor's care as the adjunct to the people here.

And we didn't even take an oath!

MAYS 2010-02-07 08:45:44 -0600 Report

There is an " Unwritten Oath " embedded in all of us that we take upon birth, some pack it away but at some time in life we must unpack it even if for the selfish reason of wanting it, it's called … " Compassion " … !

Pam from KCMO
Pam from KCMO 2010-02-07 05:46:16 -0600 Report

Thanks for posting this, Mays. I've heard about the Hippocratic Oath - but never read it in full. It's beautifully written and I love the spirit behind it.

imsuzie2 2010-02-06 04:38:10 -0600 Report

As with some, I have been lucky with my docs…only 1 bad one, but was he bad! Depak Desai, the Gastro of Vegas, causing the biggest test of patients for Hep C, B, A and HIV for ordering the anesthesiologists to reuse syringes and 1 dose vials of "sleepy medicine" on multiple patients undergoing 3 minute colonoscopies when the average time in ethical practices is 7. Over 50,000 of us had to be tested! Bet your bad docs aren't this bad! Hugs

MAYS 2010-02-06 05:23:40 -0600 Report

I hope that he was brought up on charges and prosecuted !
" Mays "

imsuzie2 2010-02-07 04:00:15 -0600 Report

We're still working on that. Last year he had "a stroke" and his attorney says he can't help in his defense. No one could prove it…just another scam on his part. Some cases settled out of court and I think the first court case is set for October. I check the paper web sites about once a week, and have a BOX full of all the articles I could find on it in the office closet. The first year I checked on it daily, I was SO ANGRY. Now I look about once a week. I had written letters to the governor, mayor, Board of Medical Examiners, both papers and at least one other. Yes, I was angry.

Now we have the doc who prescribes drugs to "Michael Jackson" and was there as he was dying and didn't do proper CPR…think they are finally charging him in the death.

I heard about the pharmacist. Was glad my mom and sister were not getting meds from him. Unthinkable.

Pam from KCMO
Pam from KCMO 2010-02-06 05:47:30 -0600 Report

I heard about that, Sue - sounds like a case we had in KC a few years ago where a pharmacist mixing cancer drug cocktails was diluting them to save money. Meanwhile, the jerk was active in his church - even gave a huge donation to their building fund. They never figured out how many people died from his scam.

There's a special place waiting for him - and Desai - in Hell.

dietcherry 2010-02-06 09:07:40 -0600 Report

Chilling!!! Renee

Pat Roth
Pat Roth 2010-02-06 10:01:17 -0600 Report

Yes, sigh———unfortunately, those things do happen—in Wichita we had a Dr who over prescribed pain meds, killed several—-brought up on charges—-still in process of punishment—-can't recall the details—PR

MAYS 2010-02-05 23:01:33 -0600 Report

This discussion was started not to attack medical professionals but rather to point out the commonality and compassion in their profession via their oath and code of conduct although at times we don't feel as though we are getting or seeing it.
" Mays "

Harlen 2010-02-06 00:04:34 -0600 Report

You are golden and a wonderfull person
I am sorry to poke fun at the Doc's but as much as they have poked me I guss I just need to get even.
And some do live up to it.
But as we all know there are a lot that do not!
Again I am sorry if I messed up your post
Best wishes

MAYS 2010-02-06 03:08:50 -0600 Report

Are you kidding me ?
You livened it up and got the party started and for that I am truly grateful, no need to apologize.
Thanks for the input and laughs, from all of us !
" Mays "

Pat Roth
Pat Roth 2010-02-05 13:15:37 -0600 Report

Wow, well I can say this much!!! Today has really been a STRETCHING and GROWING day!! I am going shortly, to see my own Dr who DOES follow the above oath, as most probably do. My own experiences have been partly MY fault, so can not truly bash them ALL!! It is tempting at times, but then I wonder what they think of me?? Am I being truthful and honest, and helping THEM? Or am I of the old school that was taught to "Not complain" till one gets too confused to really know if they have a real problem, or an imaginary one, and yes, that can happen when we become unsure of ourselves. I think Drs pick up on our own unsureness of facts—-hoping that they (Drs) can read our minds and automatically KNOW our real problems and cure them PRONTO!! So I think that there is enough blame to go around.. At least there is at my house! lol, Pat R

Harlen 2010-02-05 12:39:32 -0600 Report

Have you seen the new one????/

I swear to make as much money as I can no matter who I have to take it from.

I will take the drug comp's money even if I know this will not help any one

I will give each cutomer 10 min or less
no mater what they are sick with.
{its there folt anyway}

I will never sey I dont know I will just give a new pill

I will not bash Doctors sorry just had to vent lol
And for them that are good Doc's I am sorry
I have a good one thank god but I know some that are this way
Best wishes all

MAYS 2010-02-05 14:05:12 -0600 Report

That's better than the old one !
Let's call this one "The Hypocrite's Oath of Selfishness" !
" Mays "

Danni-the-diabetic 2010-02-05 23:08:24 -0600 Report

LOL That's funny Harlen, and true in most cases…I don't trust alot of doc's, thats why i stick with mine, i dont have health insurance so she hooks me up with insulin when I am too broke from being sick and missing work and lets me use my own test kit when she takes my sugar - anyone can use theirs if they ask.
Other than that I have found that all other doctors are a name that I am not going to post on this wall…

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