What works to control blood glucose. (Moved from the message section)

Toma
By Toma Latest Reply 2009-01-18 17:59:58 -0600
Started 2008-06-16 09:06:57 -0500

This started in the private messages but I am
moving it to the discussion section where more
people can see it and be part of it. this first post will be a bit log to be able to get the relevant parts. It started with jupton1 in an email exchange that started with the topic how are you doing today. Many post not relevant to this particular discussion have been edited out.

jupton1:

Doing great thanks,my a1c is 6 & the Dr said I can quit these meds in 30 days and control this with diet.

I responded:

GREAT NEWS jupton!,

I would love to hear all the details of how you did it and how you do when you go off meds. I would also ask you to tell your story at www.diabetic-Diet-Secrets.com in the forum as an inspiration to others. The more of us telling how we did it the better for those looking for answers. There is a faction trying to convince everyone that type 2 diabetes is progressive and it will only get worse. There are a growing number of us proving this incorrect and offering hope to others.

ncnurse:

Way to go Toma…and Jupton1 ! Congratulations…you are both inspirations to the rest of us, and as Dance said…just because you are on your way to a more healthy "YOU", Don't leave us here. Stay and be an asset as you are to this growing group. It is so nice to hear positive things being told here, along with so many negative things in this world today.

tmana:

D&E is the best way to go, for those of us T2s who are willing and able to make the effort to go that way. I've been D&E since January 2004. Doctor's office called today to say all my labs are "normal", but I won't know for sure what they are until they send me copies (I log all my test results and keep copies, and suggest everyone else to do the same).

In the thread Jupton was asked what he does. He responded:

I have been walking; I eat 2- healthy choice meals a day. For breakfast I have 1 cup of low fat oatmeal& 1 snack a day. I don’t drink any pop at all..Lots of water, I learn all I can because I believe without a doubt I can control this. I also take a few stress Mgt classes a week.

Then Zapper said:

I watch my diet pretty well but am still learning about what I can and should stay away from. I welcome ideas from anyone regarding that.

I said:

Zapper, I have many suggestions that would take too long to explain here.

Short answer: I do not believe counting carbs is a good answer. A far better answer is the PCF ratio which takes into account all the protein, carbohydrates and fats that are in a meal.

The PCF ratio needs to be further expanded with glycemic index and glycemic load as well as good fats /bad fats.

These two items need to be further expanded with anti inflammatory concepts and developing a personalized, PCF balanced, low glycemic, anti inflammatory diet.

I talk about all of these on www.Diabetic-Diet-Secrets.com and there is a PDF ebook version of my book that can be downloaded from there for free.

I do not believe in simple short answers or just trying one or two things thing. Granted I am a fanatic and I go far beyond what many people are willing to do but at the same time I am getting good results with my last A1C at 5.0 without any meds and I have been maintaining A1C between 5.0 and 5.6 for three years without medications. I prepare just about everything I eat from scratch and defiantly not any frozen or boxed meals. (I haven't found one yet that is properly optimized to my standards.)

In addition to these there are specific foods that are beneficial such as; beans, omega 3 fatty acids, cinnamon, stevia, bitter gourd, nopal and others.

Dancehawk added:

A lot of times we humans tend to go gung-ho and burn out fast, but a slow steady pace is the secret to the long run of life we are on. And Diets are a hit and miss, what I had last week might send me spiking this week lol!

I told my hubby I am ready to go get a brain transfusion lol

But all in all it is a learning process and thank goodness for this site, you all are a big blessing in my life.

Later dance hawk added:

Hi Toma,
hey the book is great lots of good information there, But it is also frustrating.

If you could try adding this I think you’ll get a really good response.

Reason being a lot of folks are like me, we need to see what you’re talking about, so give us a daily list of foods, show examples of a day portions, break down those into what they are in protein, etc.

When folks are first told they are diabetic there not only scared but confused and everything is extremely overwhelming to them, some bury their heads in the sand, others want to learn everything they can, I noticed the one area that is lacking in all the information out there are sample meal break downs, pictures of portions.
What is an exchange and what are some of the foods to sub or trade.

I looked for an exchange program on line couldn’t find one.

If you could,,,(begggs ) show this type of your daily menu it would be really great.
or break it down here for us… hint hint,
hehhehehe!!!

Zapper:
Dance, that sounds good to me as well. I am one of those who is trying to figure it all out. There is a lot to learn.

tmana:

"Exchanges" are portion sizes of like types of food: starches, fruits, vegetables, proteins, and fats. In general:
—a fruit exchange is equivalent to 15 g carbohydrates and may be represented by a small apple, a small or medium orange, or half of a very large banana. It is about 1/4 c of mashed up fruit.
—a starch exchange is about 15 g of carbohydrates and 3 g protein. This is about a slice of commercial store-bought sliced bread (such as Wonder, Sunbeam, or Tastee) or half of a slice of artisan bread (such as bakery rye bread or whole grain bread), a 5" diameter pita bread, or an 8" or 9" tortilla.
—a vegetable exchange is about 5 g carbohydrates and 2 g protein. This is usually representated by 1/2 c cooked vegetables or 1 c raw vegetables. This is about half of an average bell pepper (raw), 1 raw carrot, half of a broccoli crown, or one and a half plum tomatoes.
—a dairy exchange has about 7 g protein and about 12 g carb, mostly from lactose and related milk sugars. This is about a cup of skim milk or 6 oz of plain yogurt.
—protein exchanges have about 7 g protein each, are low/no-carb, and are further divided by how much fat it takes for that food to get to that amount of protein. Usually this is about an ounce of cooked meat, a large or extra-large egg, or an ounce of cheese.
—fat exchanges are equivalent to 5 g fat. This is a teaspoon of olive oil or butter, or 2 teaspoons of nut butter.

I generally find it easier to treat my proteins as mixed-exchanges. Instead of counting a full-fat hot dog (7 g protein, 10 g fat) as a "high fat protein exchange, I would count it as 1 protein exchange and 2 fat exchanges. You may find a different method easier.

tmana: a bit later in the conversation:

Dance: IIRC, you can actually purchase a booklet with a lot of the exchange breakdowns from the American Diabetes Association (http://www.diabetes.org) or the American Diatetic Association (http://www.eatright.org); the system was developed by the two organizations in conjunction with each other.
Best for me is to weigh everything and calculate by gram weight whenever possible. Digital food scales are extremely useful in this endeavor.

I came back into the conversation with this:

I hear you dance and there is already a recipe book in the works with pictures and exact break downs of what the meal is. :)

zapper, part of what I am trying to over come in the approach I have developed is to avoid the pitfalls that are part of over simplification.
The exchanges program from ADA is still the standard that is most often recommended within the health care system and it is several years behind the best practices currently available. It is based on the concept of simple carb counting which does not take into account the complexity of food nor the differences between carbohydrates. The exchanges method is better but still way too over simplified. It is trying to put foods into simple categories. and is inherently as much as 40% inaccurate.

Examples:

Tofu is in the lean meat exchange group which makes you think protein. In fact tofu is 38% protein, 12% carbs and 50% fat when broken down by calories. most of the fats are good fats.

knackwurst we would think of as meat (protein) when in fact it is mostly fat and bad fats.
14% calories from Protein, 4% calories from carbs and 81% calories from fat.

Weighing everything is better but the exchanges system is fundamentally flawed and part of the reason it is still around is because the ADA believes we are incapable of intelligent thought and figuring things out for our selves.

The methods I use and recommend are far more precise and do require more self education but when it comes to our health I think this should be a high priority. I do not think anyone is well served by the over simplified methods currently being endorsed by the ADA. Results pretty much tell the story.

A study done which was based on ADA recommendations found that 50% of those being treated were poorly controlled. I would place that much higher as their definition of controlled was mostly under A1C of 7.0 with medications. My idea of well controlled is less than A1C 6.0 without medications. The only way I know to do this is assume people are intelligent and willing to devote the time necessary to become educated on the subject.

When I started a little over three years ago I had to go to lots of sites to find what I needed to know that is why I built the sites to make it easier for others. In an attempt to make it better organized I wrote the book as a study guide which still refers back to the site for more information.

Where I am different than most other sources for information is I do not have a position to support or an ax to grind. I sell none of the products or have research or academic reputation to defend. I am just another type 2 diabetic interested in getting it right and in sharing what has worked for me. I would encourage you to even challenge me and my sources. As I find new and better information it will be added to what I have or what I already have posted will be modified.
I have tried to simplify a very complex subject . Even my attempt to simplify resulted in a 168 page book that could have just as easily have been a 500+ page book. In fact I had to edit down to the 168 pages from close to 300 pages in the original manuscript.

This started with a discussion of the exchanges program which was good for it's time but back then there were not computers, the internet or good nutrition software. My approach does require good nutrition software as well as the time to learn how to use it.

Thanks to a very generous offer from the maker of what I consider the best nutrition software there is a free evaluation copy of his software included with each book and ebook. (he usually will not give free trials but agreed to let me have a special evaluation copy for the book, Maybe because he agreed to be co-author.)

The one position I am a bit inflexible on is the idea that we have to take responsibility and educate ourselves on what we need to know to be healthy. I can try to do my best to provide information and tools but I am unable to prepare meals for everyone or even do a meal plan that meats all peoples needs. The best I can do is provide the principles and help understand how to apply them.

Dancehawk:

You are doing a amazing job,

This is helping me a lot, I hit a rut, were my sugar went up to 150 area this was a week after a great doctors visit, I started pulling my hair out trouble shooting why I could not get back to 110 area.

I did find out the products we were using were slightly different, The store was out of the brands that we were using, so we went back to reading labels and had to settle for a slightly higher number on areas.

I was also going by the protein the size of your palm method, but when it came to pasta it was hard for me to understand what a portion was.
Humm.
Let me get a scale and play with it see what’s what on what we have been eating, I’ll do up a few meal plans for you to help you out with samples. if you like. And it would be great experience for zapper too; it would be a hands on learning for us both.
We can be the guinea pigs lol
hehehe
Hey Zap we can toss plans back and forth see what’s working what’s not!

I came back in with this and this:

I hear you dance and there is already a recipe book in the works with pictures and exact break downs of what the meal is. :)

zapper, part of what I am trying to overcome in the approach I have developed is to avoid the pitfalls that are part of over simplification.

The exchanges program from ADA is still the standard that is most often recommended within the health care system and it is several years behind the best practices currently available. It is based on the concept of simple carb counting which does not take into account the complexity of food nor the differences between carbohydrates. The exchanges method is better but still way too over simplified. It is trying to put foods into simple categories and is inherently as much as 40% inaccurate.

Examples:

Tofu is in the lean meat exchange group which makes you think protein. In fact tofu is 38% protein, 12% carbs and 50% fat when broken down by calories. Most of the fats are good fats.

knackwurst we would think of as meat (protein) when in fact it is mostly fat and bad fats.
14% calories from Protein, 4% calories from carbs and 81% calories from fat.

Weighing everything is better but the exchanges system is fundamentally flawed and part of the reason it is still around is because the ADA believes we are incapable of intelligent thought and figuring things out for ourselves.

The methods I use and recommend are far more precise and do require more self education but when it comes to our health I think this should be a high priority. I do not think anyone is well served by the over simplified methods currently being endorsed by the ADA. Results pretty much tell the story.

A study done which was based on ADA recommendations found that 50% of those being treated were poorly controlled. I would place that much higher as their definition of controlled was mostly under A1C of 7.0 with medications. My idea of well controlled is less than A1C 6.0 without medications. The only way I know to do this is assume people are intelligent and willing to devote the time necessary to become educated on the subject.

When I started a little over three years ago I had to go to lots of sites to find what I needed to know that is why I built the sites to make it easier for others. In an attempt to make it better organized I wrote the book as a study guide which still refers back to the site for more information.

Where I am different than most other sources for information is I do not have a position to support or an ax to grind. I sell none of the products or have research or academic reputation to defend. I am just another type 2 diabetic interested in getting it right and in sharing what has worked for me. I would encourage you to even challenge me and my sources. As I find new and better information it will be added to what I have or what I already have posted will be modified.
I have tried to simplify a very complex subject. Even my attempt to simplify resulted in a 168 page book that could have just as easily have been a 500+ page book. In fact I had to edit down to the 168 pages from close to 300 pages in the original manuscript.

This started with a discussion of the exchanges program which was good for its time but back then there were not computers, the internet or good nutrition software. My approach does require good nutrition software as well as the time to learn how to use it.

Thanks to a very generous offer from the maker of what I consider the best nutrition software on the market, there is a free evaluation copy of his software included with each book and ebook. (He usually will not give free trials but agreed to let me have a special evaluation copy for the book. Maybe he agreed because he agreed to be co-author of the book.)

The one position I am a bit inflexible on is the idea that we have to take responsibility and educate ourselves on what we need to know to be healthy. I can try to do my best to provide information and tools but I am unable to prepare meals for everyone or even do a meal plan that meets all peoples needs. The best I can do is provide the principles and help understand how to apply them.

At this point I decided to move this discussion to the discussion section where it can be seen by everyone and everyone can have input.


19 replies

Charish
Charish 2008-06-19 02:34:55 -0500 Report

Toma I'm to see good things happening to people you and jupton1 it's truly exciting. I am borderline diabetic and the best thing that I've found to help control my levels is diet and exercise. I walk twice a day now 3 miles each time and have made life style changes that will benefit me more now and in the long run. I know that my job has just begun but I feel good about the things I'm doing. And I have to remember that diabetes is heavy on my mother's side of the family and keeping in mind the deaths that have already occurred because of it is more then enough to keep me goin on this new path and the fight for my life and health. Keep up the good work guys.

Toma
Toma 2008-06-19 07:05:08 -0500 Report

Hi Cherish,

Awareness is the first step. Things are getting progressively worse in our society because we are being constantly bombarded with advertisement for really bad food choices and now the food manufacturers are trying to claim their bad products are healthy products. (There ought to be a law)

We can see this in the stats. Less than 1% of the population was diabetic in 1950. ( About the same time the trends started toward our really bad North American Diet) The number of North Americans diagnosed with type 2 diabetes has increased to 8% of the population or an 800% increase since 1950. The numbers have doubled in just the past 10 years.

Some of the health experts I talk with are now saying they expect 1/3 of todays infants to be diabetic in their lifetime. An article I read the other day was talking about the concern over the number of young people that are being diagnosed. When I read these articles I wonder why they are not seeing the link to the dietary changes in the past 60 years and the growing problems.

Not to be indelicate or politically incorrect, type 2 diabetes risks increase with darker skin. I think the link to this is probably the connection to more melatonin in darker skin decreasing the intake of vitamin D from sunlight.

The best we can do is eliminate as many risk factors as possible. We have not talked about it in this thread but vitamin d is one of those things we can do to lower our risks and obtain better health. Type 2 diabetes is one in a cluster of diseases that have inflammation at it's core. Vitamin D and Omega 3 are two of the most powerful weapons we have for decreasing inflammation. I take and recommend 2000 units of vitamin D and 1200 mg of EPA and DHA in Omega 3 fish oil capsules.

Charish
Charish 2008-06-21 03:31:45 -0500 Report

Toma,

Thank you so much for this information and there has to be more awareness to put a stop to this silent but voiceful enemy. I take 3000 mgs of Omega Fish Oil a day and you have me thinking on increasing the Vitamin D, I will also mention this to my mother who is already Type2.

Thank again,

Charish

jupton1
jupton1 2008-06-17 05:11:22 -0500 Report

I would just like to say,dont give up everyone.Take action,read,learn all You can.This is a war, fight to win..Im type 2 and my a1c test was great,exercise,drink lots of water & relax,this takes time.Best of luck to everyone..John U

Toma
Toma 2008-06-17 05:47:40 -0500 Report

Thats good advice John. We did not become diabetic over night. It was a lot of abuse to our systems over a long period of time. It takes time to learn what we were doing wrong and how to correct it and it is going to take time and effort to change our bad dietary habits to healthy habits.

You are also correct when you say this is a war. We need to identify who our friends and allies are. (and they are not who they should be) We need to figure our what our most effective weapons are and how to use them.

My strategy has always been to ignore the armchair experts and find people who are already doing what I want to do and emulate what they do and then improve on that if I can.

In my opinion, the arm chair experts are people who have studied the problem but never actually had to face it or apply the solutions they hypothesize. There are lots of diabetic experts who talk the talk but do not walk the walk.

Dancehawk
Dancehawk 2008-06-17 07:10:06 -0500 Report

I agree, and you both are very right this is a war, a war to live.

And Jupton you are a great insperation to me just like Toma and everyone here.

I have changed everything I eat, exercising everyday, plus swimming 3 days a week, I went back up to 150 area in my sugar and could not figure out why till Toma opened a door, then we found the reason.
now I am serious about getting portions to where they need to be and hopefully getting my AC1 down to a 4 or a 5 so I can get off meds.
As you guys have taught me this is a on going learning lesson and what works today may not tomorrow, but never give up.
I will look at the scales kdroberts thank you for the link hun!

huggles to all
Dance

kdroberts
kdroberts 2008-06-17 08:08:42 -0500 Report

"We did not become diabetic over night. It was a lot of abuse to our systems over a long period of time. It takes time to learn what we were doing wrong and how to correct it and it is going to take time and effort to change our bad dietary habits to healthy habits."

I agree that no one turns diabetic overnight, but not that it was a lot of abuse to our systems over a long period of time. My diet before I was diagnosed isn't a whole lot different to what it is now. A few little tweaks with the carb amounts and types here and there based on meter readings but generally it's pretty similar to what it was.

Toma
Toma 2008-06-17 11:17:04 -0500 Report

I have to admit that prior to being diagnosed my diet was horrible. 10+ cans of my favorite soda pop, sugar on my sugared cereal, high glycemic sticky white rice, baked potatoes, white bread from highly processed grains, lots of red meat etc.etc.

For me it required an entire dietary makeover as well as learning better ways to cook. No more deep frying, high temperature frying, switching to steaming and other healthier cooking options. I have admittedly gone to extreme.

John I have been thinking about your war analogy ever since this morning and I guess that is the way I think about it too. I am a military man. I was a Chief Warrant Officer in the US army.

I first defined the problem and identified the enemy. Then I had to do a recon. (searched the internet) Then I had to device strategy, evaluate and select best weapons, prosecute the attack and do my after action report. (My book and websites.)

As I was thinking about this analogy I started classifying different strategies and comparing them to weapons.

Carb counting, probably the most widely spread tactic I would compare to a 22 cal, cheap Saturday night special pistol. Cheap, easy, inaccurate and little stopping power.

Drugs I would classify as a hand grenade. Potentially a stopper but lots of collateral damage and only partially effective.

The Exchanges Program; 22 cal. rifle better but still nor as good as it could be.

PCF ratio / good software; an M-16. starting to become a good weapon but still limmited.

Add Glycemic index to PCF ratio and I am not feeling so under armed in a major fire fight.

Add Anti-inflammatory diet concepts to PCF and glycemic index and I think it is becoming a good weapon.

Now refine with certain foods that help control blood glucose, supplements for the things I am not getting from my food such as omega 3 EPA/DHA, vitamin D and I now have an m-60 machine gun.

I am hoping I am not offending too many people by using military analogy to make a point but yes it is a battle. We need the best weapons and we get those by becoming self educated. I could go on with many other specifics but save that for another post.

Toma
Toma 2008-06-19 01:51:06 -0500 Report

I have decided to do my show on BlogTalkRadio.com as a continuation of This topic that started on DiabeticConnect.com. The discussion is about controlling blood glucose with diet and the various methods such as carb counting, exchanges, PCF ration, Glycemic index, anti-inflammatory diet, etc.

The show is The Game of Health http://www.blogtalkradio.com/game_of_health
Time: 5-6 pm Pacific Standard Time June 19, 2008

We can do a live discussion. I know I can take up to 5 calls simultaneously and maybe up to 20. I think it would be fun to have a round table discussion and invite any and all who want to be part to tune in. It is an internet based radio show and it is my understanding there is no upper limit to how many can listen in.

I am sending this message to everyone in my friends list and invite you to pass the word to as many other diabeticConnect members or anyone else you think might be interested. I am also adding it to this discussion.

The live call in number is (347) 326 9973 which is a New York phone number. Anyone can listen in. Subscribed members of BlogTalkRadio.com can also use the click to talk feature when accessing with Internet explorer if you have speakers and a microphone.

Laurie and Linda will be in the live chat to assist and pass questions to me from anyone who does not want to go live on-air with me or to offer assistance in getting into the show. Hope to be talking with some of you. If this goes well, we can continue it every Thursday night. If there is a better time, I can move my show to that time slot. If you miss the show live it is archived and can be listened to at any time.

Anonymous
Anonymous 2009-01-18 06:34:02 -0600 Report

Please excuse what type "abuse" to your body causes diabetes? I would like to know what I did to mine to cause my diabetes??

Toma
Toma 2009-01-18 17:20:33 -0600 Report

I am not seeing the context of the comment in the thread but the abuse we do to our bodies that lead to type 2 diabetes is in different forms. It often is in a variety of forms.

I believe in most cases we are not doing it intentionally rather through lack of knowledge.

These are the ones we can most easily identify.

1. Chemical abuse: this can take the form of chemicals we are knowingly or unknowingly being exposed to. It might be pesticides such as dioxin like the Agent orange soldiers in Vietnam were exposed to or domestic herbicides used in agriculture. It might be medications. It could be arsenic in our foods or the air we breath.

2. lack of exercise.

3. The largest single cause of type 2 diabetes and a host of other chronic diseases is diet. The typical North American diet is highly inflammatory as well as laden with over processed high glycemic foods. I don't think most of us intend to eat badly. We just do it out of lack of knowing what a truly healthy diet is. We are not helped by the fact that there is a barrage of media, governmental, corporate and medical misinformation on the subject of nutrition.

Toma
Toma 2008-06-17 03:28:35 -0500 Report

Dancehawk, you asked me to do examples of what I eat and visuals of what a healthy diet looks like. I have started a project at my house where we are going to video and photograph a days worth of healthy diet for me when it is complete it will be posted on my website. It is going to take more than just taking the pictures to make it web usable so this project is going to probably take a couple of weeks to have it ready to present on the internet.

The first step for me and what I recommend in the book is to know your nutrition targets. The nutrition goals I am posting are for me and uniquely me. It is based on age, sex, height, weight, frame, activity level and a few other criteria. I have made it easy for others to get these goals as a starting point. I offer a free diet assessment that gives you what I think is right for you based on all the criteria. You can get your own at http://diabetic-diet-secrets.com/free_diabeti...

Even with this it is just a tool and you have to learn how to use it. The numbers are generated by formulas and still need some tweaking. For example: your daily calorie needs are probably slightly higher or lower than formulas can predict.

These are my daily nutrition goals. There is not an option here to do tables for data so it is not as clean and neat like what I see on my computer but you can get the general idea.

Client Report for Toma Grubb

Client Information and Goals:
Start Date: 11/16/2006 Starting Weight: 195 pounds
Goal Date: 2/6/2007 Desired Weight: 183 pounds
Sex: Male Weight loss per week 1.0 pounds
Age: 61 Starting Body Fat: 29.6%
Build: Large Desired Body Fat: 25.1%
Height: 68 in. Starting BMI: 29.6
Activity Level: Sedentary Desired BMI: 27.9

Estimated Daily Calorie Requirement Summary:
Basic Calorie Requirement: 2082
Calories to Maintain Weight: 2082
Calories to lose 1.0 lbs/wk: 1582

PCF Ratio:
Nutrient % Grams Calories
Protein 20% 79.1 g 316.4
Carbohydrates 50% 197.8 g 791.0
Fat 30% 52.7 g 474.6
Saturated Fat 7% 12.3 g 110.7

Nutrient Goals:
Nutrient Goal Value
Calories 1582.00
Food Energy (kj) 6619.09
Protein (g) 79.10
Calories from Protein 316.40
% Calories from Protein 20.00
Carbohydrates (g) 197.75
Dietary Fiber (g) 30.00
Calories from Carbohydrates 791.00
% Calories from Carbohydrates 50.00
Fat (g) 52.73
Saturated Fat (g) 12.30
Omega-3 (g) 1.60
Omega-6 (g) 4.00
Calories from Fat 474.60
% Calories from Fat 30.00
Cholesterol (mg) 97.60
Water (g) 3700.00
Vit-A (mcg_RAE) 900.00
Vit-A IU 3000.00
Vit-B1 Thiamine (mg) 1.20
Vit-B2 Riboflavin (mg) 1.30
Vit-B3 Niacin (mg) 16.00
Vit-B5 Pantothenic Acid (mg) 5.00
Vit-B6 Pyridoxine (mg) 1.70
Total Folate (mcg) 400.00
Folate, Food (mcg) 400.00
Folic Acid (mcg) 400.00
Folate, DFE (mcg_DFE) 400.00
Vit-B12 Cyanocobalami (mcg) 2.00
Vit-H (mcg) Biotin 300.00
Vit-C (mg) 90.00
Vit-D (IU) 400.00
Tocopherol, Alpha (mg) 15.00
Vit-K (mcg) 80.00
Calcium (mg) 1200.00
Magnesium (mg) 400.00
Phosphorus (mg) 900.00
Potassium (mg) 4700.00
Sodium (mg) 1500.00
Chloride (mg) 2000.00
Chromium (mcg) 30.00
Copper (mg) 0.90
Fluroide (mg) 3.60
Iodine (mcg) 150.00
Iron (mg) 11.00
Manganese (mg) 2.30
Molybdenum (mcg) 45.00
Selenium (mcg) 70.00
Zinc (mg) 15.00

Dancehawk
Dancehawk 2008-06-16 09:39:05 -0500 Report

are there different scales we need to look for?

tmana
tmana 2008-06-16 10:06:52 -0500 Report

A good digital scale that will read as low as single grams up to 1 kilogram (~2.2 lb), and up to 5 pounds (~2.2 kg) maximum is sufficient for most cooking needs. A second scale that measures fractions of a gram may be useful for measuring out spices; for the most part, I have done without that smaller scale.

Some folk like to have a portable digital scale as well, so they can weigh out appropriate portions of restaurant meals; again, I've not gotten that strict about it.

Dancehawk
Dancehawk 2008-06-16 09:32:04 -0500 Report

Good idea to move it to here, I know there are a lot of folks that are like me and Zapper.
I do beleave this break down will help us all, and Me and Zapper are still going to play with meals to see hands on what we can apply in our lives and hopefully help others.
Like I said your awsome hun!
and thank you for being here.

Dance

Next Discussion: cinnergin »