Paleo Diet? Ok folks, Jillian took the words right out of my mouth!

jigsaw
By jigsaw Latest Reply 2013-12-18 18:42:17 -0600
Started 2013-12-06 19:35:50 -0600

16 replies

Nick1962
Nick1962 2013-12-15 08:48:24 -0600 Report

I don’t know Jigsaw. If your point was to somehow discredit Paleo, I think I might have chosen someone with more credibility and credentials than the current decade’s workout queen. From the nearly all negative comments regarding her “non-answer” below the video……..”listening to her talking about nutrition is like listening to Mike Tyson talking about ballet…”.
She clearly knows nothing about Paleo. Her own book “Master Your Metabolism” is about 90% Paleo, and in fact her meal plans are just as restrictive as my “modified” Paleo plan.

Sure, any new eating plan is going to be “restrictive” if you have weight to lose or blood sugar to control, especially since we’ve all become accustomed to eating way, way above and beyond what we should. Paleo is just a way of returning to an eating program our bodies were designed to thrive on.

jigsaw
jigsaw 2013-12-15 09:56:06 -0600 Report

Actually, my intent was not to discredit anyone or anything! As a matter of fact, I admit to knowing limited details about Jillians backround. Personally, I could care less what name is applied to any diet. If it's a healthy diet, consisting of healthy foods and nutrition, that's what really matters. I believe you misinterpreted my message, and the bigger picture that I was attempting to portray. I believe that for many of us, it is important to get professional advice from a dietician or nutritionist, especially if your following a specific diet. There are diets out there that are down right dangerous, and put into print. There are people who follow these diets without an in depth knowledge of what they are actually doing. There are non-experts who give advice and recommend diets, beyond their personal experience, when they simply don't have the credentials to fairly do so. On the other hand, I personally don't have anything against Paleo, or some of the other diets that are known. In many ways, you could say that I resort to Paleo to some extent.
So, I think that only you have done some discrediting by knocking Jillian and her book. I understand that I apparently hit a sensitive spot, and I apologize if you felt attacked, insulted, or somehow slighted. No actual reason to come back at me with with double barrel shotguns. You must admit, that I stimlated your senses, as I suspected I might! (-;
Anyway, it's great to see you here even though you're huffing and puffing.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2013-12-15 19:50:12 -0600 Report

Now, now, big guy, no one’s huffing and puffing or pointing shotguns, but your post title does start with “Paleo diet” and the title of the clip starts with “Paleo diet”. Seems pretty specifically targeted against Paleo, though I did not take it as a personal affront.

Sometimes the smartest answer to a question is “I really don’t know enough about it to comment”, which is what Ms. Michaels should have done here. To pass off Paleo as a “restrictive fad diet” is like saying healthy eating is a restrictive fad diet.

Paleo isn’t a “diet” – Weight Watchers is a diet. Jenny Craig is a diet. Paleo nutrition is a principal based on the fact that our bodies have not genetically evolved past that of our Paleolithic ancestors to metabolize and process many of the foods currently in our modern day “western” diets. This principal has been around a long, long time and those who have followed it have been shown to be largely free of the “diseases of affluence” like diabetes, obesity, high cholesterol, and heart issues. All issues that you can easily see arise shortly after any culture adopts our western diet. Aside from slaking their corn, Native Americans practiced Paleo nutrition. Doesn’t really seem like a “fad diet” to me. In fact the term “Paleo” was first coined to this type of nutritional principal back in the early 1970’s. 30 years sure is a long fad.

Jillian Michaels is exceptionally good at what she does. She’s a personal trainer and entrepreneur. A real modern day Denise Austin (you’re old enough to remember her). I personally owe a lot of my weight loss success to “The Biggest Loser” show she hosts. She holds a “consultant’s certificate” in nutrition and wellness (which, by the way, so does my chiropractor), so yes, I do discredit her for less than educated remark dismissing as a fad a principal on which her own book is based. If you want to generalize her closing comments “eat clean food, whole foods, don’t eat poison” and say you agree with that, fine, but that’s not an earth shattering nutritional revelation, nor is it a fad. In fact that’s the Paleo principal in a nutshell.

jigsaw
jigsaw 2013-12-16 16:10:53 -0600 Report

Paleo, is a very controversial subject, even amongst experts. It is referred to as Paleo diet by some, Paleo lifestyle, and Paleo nutrition in some cases. Although similar, in reality, they have different meanings. The National Health Service of the United Kingdom refers to it as a diet fad. To me, it's just a matter of semantics used to specify the origins of the types of foods, and ways that they were derived from and utilized by some of our ancestors as well as current Paleo nutrition concepts and principles.

Like most food plans (just playijng it safe) Paleo nutrition or concepts are restrictive. Some of the foods that are restricted are controversial as to their nutritional benefits or lack of.

I personally do not fault or profess Paleo nutrition. I understand your point of view though. Obviously, Paleo nutrition has done much to improve your overall health. I would imagine, that there is no comparison with the way you ate previously, and the nutritional benefits that you have gained with your current food plan. I'm not sure that the American native is a reasonable example, or proof of the benefits due to Paleo nutrition in general. Their entire way of living, was radically different then ours, in so many ways. Certainly the caveman isn't. They didn't live long enough to suffer the maladies of old age. They were probably more at risk for being eaten by a Saber Tooth Tiger, or trampled by a Wooly Mammoth. There are even arguments concerning whether modern man has evolved genetically to where our bodies can tolerate some of the modern day foods more advantageously (not referring to junk foods).

I have little if any doubt as to whether the Paleo concepts offer nutritional benefits when compared to the typically horrid American fast food diet, or various other diets. I'm still not sure if it is the best thing nutritionally, long term. I do know that the Atkins Diet has been around for many years, and could be considered a fad diet as well as a few others. My point is, it is important to distinguish the term Paleo diet ( A fad ), from Paleo concepts ( not a fad ). I found no fault in Jillians remarks, nor did I hear her knock Paleo,

To sum it up, I think you'll agree, that there are many pros and cons among experts concerning Paleo nutrition and concepts. Of course this applies to practically all concepts concerning good nutrition and the means to. This is why I posted this discussion. Quite frankly, I have picked up quite a bit of info and food for thought as a result. Paleo nutrition certainly has its merits. I'm simply not sure to what extent. Then again I'm no expert on nutrition either. Atkins also has its nutritional benefits for some, but then again it is also known to have some detrimental effects for some, as so many diets eventually have.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2013-12-17 10:45:30 -0600 Report

I’ll sure concede there is controversy over Paleo, and that there are semantic differences. It’s those semantics that too often lead to the controversy. The major problem is that the Paleo concept has spawned (like Veganism) many “prophets” who then put out their own interpretations of Paleo in the form of a “diet” and publish them.

If you look for a “Paleo Diet” on google, you’ll find varying degrees of the concept (as discussed here by Adam Farrah http://practicalpaleolithic.com/paleolithic-d... ) written by everyone one from the strict extremist like this one http://ultimatepaleoguide.com/paleo-diet-food... (referred to as the “old diet”), all the way up to the more conservative, practical diet those of us in the mainstream practice (called modified Paleo as discussed here http://www.livestrong.com/article/233718-modi... ) which does allow for things like grains and legumes, even dairy, just in minimum quantities. We make these concessions because we know that the foods we get in the current world are so modified that the necessary nutrition just isn’t there otherwise. And quite frankly, we know very little about real Paleolithic life, so going to the “old diet” extremes is just guessing. The controversy comes in because the studies performed only consider the strict textbook “old diet” plans, and I guarantee you, the majority of us do not follow those. If you want to attach the word “fad” to those diets, no argument from me, but remember, veganism was a fad diet in the 60’s too, and it’s still practiced.

I still stand by my position regarding Ms. Michael’s comments, because anyone that automatically assumes “Paleo” means the strict “old diet”, hasn’t done near enough research into what’s actually being practiced. Yes, that is my sensitive spot - snap judgments.

Stimulating as this discussion is Jigsaw, I’m not looking to convert you or anyone else. Just wanting to clear up some pervasive misconceptions. You yourself even started a discussion mildly praising the benefits of Paleo for BG management, so I’m a little puzzled by the turnabout.

I agree that if you blindly follow any plan without research, consequences can be harmful. Bottom line is though, that most of us are keenly aware of the nutritional values of what we put in our mouths, closely monitor our nutrition through our routine blood panels, and advocate that before even considering a modified Paleo plan, you get a work-up done to see if it would be beneficial or harmful. You can’t argue with results – the plan is low sodium, low fat, low carb and low sugar, and after following it now for several years, all my blood work is near textbook perfect. I maintain a normal weight and A1c as well. I’m not sure I understand what negative long-term consequences can come of that.

jigsaw
jigsaw 2013-12-18 06:40:04 -0600 Report

Seems like the term Paleo, is used rather loosely. As a matter of fact, it could be argued that some versions of Paleo, are not Paleo at all!

To clarify my perceptions related to Paleo, I have not experienced a turnabout as you mentioned. As I stated previously, and as you have apparently experienced, Paleo concepts can be very beneficial, when applied and utilized wisely. Although I don't follow a paleo diet per se, some paleo concepts are definitely included in my food plan.

The key here is to utilize a food plan wisely, regardless of which one we are referring to. I don't believe that most of us are keenly aware of the nutritional values of what we put in our mouths. Especially if you are referring to the public in general, when you made that statement. Simply look at the typical American diet. Obviously, you have done your share of research, and included the skills and knowledge of professionals, to help guide you in your nutritioinal choices, and food plan in general. You prefer to use the term "modified Paleo" if I'm not mistaken. This infers flexibilty as to variations! This could be cause for mis-interpretation for some as it is with many diets.. Without professional nutritional guidance, some diets and concepts can lead to serious problems. Maybe not in your case, but I know people that think they are utilizing a beneficial approach to good nutrition, when in fact they are actually not following many professionally accepted guidelines. Years ago, when I was on a modified version of Atkins, I also took blood tests and used the skills of various experts to guide me in my choices. Worked wonders for me in my mgmt of diabetes and bg control. I am no longer on the Atkins diet per se, but I do follow many of the Atkin concepts.

Have you ever had a full panel of your vitamin and mineral levels checked? There are naturopathic doctors that will do this test, although some feel it is not necessary. It can definitely show vitamin levels that are missed by routine blood tests
.
Not knowing enough about how and what you eat as well as other details, I can't answer your question as to what negative long term consequences may appear. Your terninology is too generic in nature. Example, low carb to me, may not be the same as low carb to you. Too low however, could have negative consequences.

So, that is my point, all of us should use caution with any diet or nutritional concept.Experts are crucial for guidance as is personal research. No diet is perfect. No diet or food plan fits the bill for everyone. There are pros and cons to all diets and nutritional concepts.

It may appear that I am playing the devils advocate, but actually I believe that I am simply becoming better informed.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2013-12-18 09:49:51 -0600 Report

Devil’s advocate? You? Nah, never! :) Better informed, yes, and I think that’s why it’s good to have discussions like this. We all learn. I’ve learned that Paleo is a lot more misunderstood than I thought.

When I say “we” are keenly aware….., I was referring to those of us Paleo eaters, although I do think the general population is becoming more health enlightened. Contrasting Paleo to “pre-packaged” diets like Atkins and others is kind of tricky. Most of those programs have a structure, a schedule, regimen or a pattern to follow – do “x” for 6 weeks, then eat “x” for 6 weeks, restrict “x” to whatever per day and so on. The Paleo concept/principal isn’t like that. It upfront requires you to look at your current health state and assess what foods give you the maximum nutritional value. With most modified Paleo concept followers, rarely are their “diets” alike, although their base components all share a commonality – protein, vegetables, fruits and nuts – you consume them how and when you want/need, with the occasional “assist” from things like beans/legumes, whole grain, or dairy.

Once you’ve examined the foods, I don’t think it’s accidental that after eliminating what is non-beneficial, you do end up with nearly the “old diet” Paleo food list. Example: mashed potatoes. Do they have nutritional value? Some, yes, but after examining my lifestyle and needs, they’re more detrimental to me than say, cauliflower. Pasta and rice suffer the same fate – what my body has to go through to process them is beyond what nutrition they provide. Now, there is no way in today’s society that I’m going to live on celery and nuts for lunch each day, although many days I do. That’s where the modifications come in. I know I need carbs, and I also know when I need them, so some days a serving of bread is nutritionally the most viable (but rare) option. This can be in the form of bread or as filler in things like meatballs or meatloaf provided I get the necessary daily protein with it. In a nutshell, we look at what our daily requirements are and eat the most beneficial and efficiently metabolized foods to achieve those numbers.

Do I stray? Oh, you bet. It’s kind of impossible not to. Just came back from vacation where there were far too many beer and pizza nights than I was comfortable with, however, we did spend the rest of the week eating pretty much just chicken, pork and vegetables in various forms (and tasty ones I might add), and we did exercise pretty hard each day. And since my body has been processing/metabolizing in a fairly efficient manner, that “poisonous” beer and pizza only had a slightly elevating effect on my BG’s and I was back within normal ranges in less than 2 hours. While a portion controlled meal of a 4 oz. steak, 1/3 cup potatoes, and a half ear of corn may be acceptable on a diet like Weight Watchers, I would opt for a 6 oz. steak, cabbage and green beans. Less starch, sugar, carbs and more fiber and protein – a more optimally utilized meal, a no-brainer to my cells.

Yes, I do have vitamin panels done. My insurance company offers wellness discounts, so I take advantage of those programs and report results to them. I have a few deficiencies like vitamin A, calcium and potassium. If I weren’t diabetic, I could probably solve those through food, but long-term they aren’t big enough issues that a multi-vitamin won’t solve, and as my back surgery last year determined, there’s absolutely no issue with bone density loss or osteoporosis in my future.

You do end up becoming your own professional, and yes, you do have to seek professional guidance because doing this blindly has little benefit. You have to know where you stand health wise, otherwise it’s like filling your car’s gas tank without knowing the destination. Too much gas and you’re just storing it and the extra weigh taxes your mileage. Too little and you risk stranding yourself.

jigsaw
jigsaw 2013-12-18 16:36:15 -0600 Report

Just curious, do you eat beef from grass fed cattle only? What about your poultry, is it organic, and your veges? I don't, and if you don't, then it sounds like you're raiding my frig! Meanwhile, I think I'll break out a couple of celery stalks smeared with peanut butter , and watch a movie.
Here's to Paleotitis!

Nick1962
Nick1962 2013-12-18 18:42:17 -0600 Report

It’s 2013 and I’m not made out of money, so no, those aren’t priorities for me.
I prefer wild caught fish for taste and nutritional value, and I have a pork supplier that uses only organic feed (no pig chow), so it’s rare I use store bought pork (can’t stand the taste and smell of the local Smithfield’s brand).
I prefer grass-fed beef for steaks, but again, don’t own a bank. And after nearly 15 years down here, I still have trouble with veggies grown in our local clay soils.
It’s leftover pork loin and grilled zucchini squash for me tonight.

jigsaw
jigsaw 2013-12-18 14:26:16 -0600 Report

Wiping the sweat off my brow! AMEN!!! For a minute, I thought we were gonna use up all the DC memory.LOL

Gabby
GabbyPA 2013-12-08 11:44:40 -0600 Report

I have found the Paleo diet to be very intuitive. I don't see it as a diet as much as a lifestyle. I like that it is whole food, easy and unprocessed. Grains may not kill me, but they certainly cause me other issues. I have had a good result with it and really don't feel like it's a fad really. I do eat a little dairy with it and if I have any grains they are seed grains like quinoia and amaranth. But I have not been eating much of even that. I've lost some weight and I am feeling great. So I am happy to do it.

jigsaw
jigsaw 2013-12-08 16:27:29 -0600 Report

Seems like it's working well for you! My biggest concern is that the average layman that chooses a particular diet, makes certain that they are getting all the necessary nutrition in a balanced fashion. There are quite a few diets that in some cases lack some nutrition, and not enough is known about some of them. I personally have consulted with a couple of dieticans, and find that I am doing much better also. It appears that you are using it as a foundation of your food plan, modified to your personal needs.

Gabby
GabbyPA 2013-12-08 17:26:38 -0600 Report

That is the only way to make it work for yourself. You find a fundamental agreement and then work from there. I am not a "cross fit" paleo person, but the basics of it work for me.

dagger1234
dagger1234 2013-12-07 13:06:07 -0600 Report

Basically I am already doing this. Mind as well just be a vegetarian lol

jigsaw
jigsaw 2013-12-07 16:44:22 -0600 Report

I can't find fault with eating healthy natural foods, and limiting or even eliminating processed foods. There are two ways that I know of to insure that you get all the nutrients necessary to stay healthy. Eat a variety of healthy foods, or make sure that you are an expert in nutrition. Since the majority of us are not nutrition experts, I'll stick with a variety of foods that I believe to be healthy and the help of registered dieticians and various experts to guide me..