What Do You Think About This?

By MAYS Latest Reply 2012-09-25 13:33:19 -0500
Started 2012-09-20 10:19:41 -0500

Tax penalty to hit nearly 6M uninsured people!

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly 6 million Americans — significantly more than first estimated— will face a tax penalty under President Barack Obama's health overhaul for not getting insurance, congressional analysts said Wednesday. Most would be in the middle class.

The new estimate amounts to an inconvenient fact for the administration, a reminder of what critics see as broken promises.

The numbers from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office are 50 percent higher than a previous projection by the same office in 2010, shortly after the law passed. The earlier estimate found 4 million people would be affected in 2016, when the penalty is fully in effect.



43 replies

maclover1524 2012-09-24 20:26:55 -0500 Report

The best way to get the "facts" on the AHCA is to go to the horse's mouth or the government web site: http://www.healthcare.gov/law/features/costs/...
Here are some things I learned:
1. Insurance companies will no longer be able to impose a lifetime cap. In real life that means: the family next door to my youngest son had a baby 18 months ago. This is in an upscale suburb. Both parents have professional positions. The baby was born with a hole in his heart. He has had 2 surgeries and more to go. His parents insurance company can not expunge him from their roles because of a pre-existing condition nor because he has reached his lifetime cap by the time he's 2 or 3 years old.
2. My granddaughter who has been diagnosed with bi-polar 2 and who is 20 years old is now able to remain on my oldest son's health insurance until she is 26 years old. This will give her doctors time to get her meds right. It also means she will not go onto government help to pay for her medical bills nor will she left out in the "cold" without the ability to care for her condition.
3. MLR is the "medical loss ratio" that all health insurance companies keep trying to bring down. It is the ratio of actual cost of health care to the cost of administrators salaries and bonuses, advertising, etc. Stockholders want the MLR to be as low as possible so that their return on investment is higher. The AHCA states that MLR must not go below 80 to 85%. Thus making sure that the money you pay for insurance is actually spent on health care not a bonus for someone in management. You can read even more about MLR's in a wonderful book "Deadly Spin" by Wendell Potter. He was a top PR executive with CIGNA and Humana . His book is a real eye opener!
I could go on and on but please get the facts on the AHCA. Let's talk about what it IS going to provide for the middle class and hard working American's who right now can't even afford health insurance. And, the so called taxes are not taxes at all. The cost of insurance is based on how much a person can afford.

AHCA is not perfect. I am sure there are things that will need to be changed and tweaked but right now AHCA is a step in the right direction for all Americans.

jayabee52 2012-09-24 21:36:49 -0500 Report

Agreed the AHCA (Obamacare) is not perfect, but do you REALLY expect to get the straight scoop about the program from the very people who are most likely to spin the information to continue the program they have created. It was passed without giving legislators adequate time to read and vet it. I remember that the leadership where they said they'd have to pass the bill to find out what was in it. (IMHO not a good way to make law — especially something so game changing as this one is)

To be sure there are some good provisions in the bill, and they "front loaded" some of the good stuff to try to get us to swallow the really scary stuff which was to come later in 2013 & following (after the Presidential election).

I have read much of the government's websites on what the AHCA is supposed to do, However I do not take what they say at face value. I fact check and read opposing viewpoints. I have been doing so ever since this issue became national news.

I am of the opinion that Obamacare needs repealed and start from ground zero. Add the good stuff back in without the additional scary garbage which comes with the Kool aid.

Plus the "so called taxes" were not intended to be taxes until the Supreme Court decided they were in reality taxes. Plus if they were not intended to be taxes, why did the legislation create 15,000 NEW IRS agents to implement the program. Those new taxes will hit the middle class HARD! If it Quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, eats like a duck, how is it not a duck?

maclover1524 2012-09-25 05:21:36 -0500 Report

Healthcare is an important issue for all of us. I respect your opinion even though I don't agree with it. History will be the judge of whether or not AHCA was right for America or not. I believe it is a good thing and it gets us started in the right direction. Thanks for your views.

flipmom 2012-09-22 19:18:31 -0500 Report

"Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen
to prove they are insured…
but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."
Wait, theres more…
"Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they
are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are
forced to buy insurance because they are citizens." #ben stein
(are we really down to this level…?)

ConnieMarie 2012-09-22 06:07:59 -0500 Report

Nothing is perfect look at Canada's healthcare system. The point of Obamacare is everyone has coverage. No one can be discriminated against for having a pre-existing condition or conditions. Health insurance companies are all about PROFIT.DOCTOR'S are all about making money…look at their cars, houses & toys. So "bitch" its a tax. But for someone like me its a great thing because my meds are $500 a month.

MAYS 2012-09-22 08:07:31 -0500 Report

Don't get me started on the cost of meds, Lovenox Injections (daily) $1,200.00 each week for 3 months, not to mentiom my other medicatioms at that time!

ConnieMarie 2012-09-22 09:02:38 -0500 Report

i had lovenox too for a long while! now for the first time i can't be discriminated against or charged more for pre-existing…i have had that in the past…once during a job change i couldn't afford the insurance & went without…i ended up in the hospital with a $65,000 bill…this last stint with insurance was $150000…

DeanaG 2012-09-21 08:52:53 -0500 Report

I am afraid that this is just the beginning of "fines" (taxes) associated with ObamaCare.

Ms. DAT 2012-09-21 05:35:47 -0500 Report

Yes Joyce I have been through that and the collection agency will call you at all times of the day and night too. I try real hard to stay well and avoid injuries because when I was full-time working I had pretty good insurance but wasn't able to take advantage of benefits at times until I was forced to go because of health concerns. So now I have some insurance that the government is paying for cause I put my time in well.
I feel that is why Diabetics and other major health issues work less sometimes to get some benefits needed. It is obvious that Mitt Romney don't think much of People who need Government assistance that we are "Victims" I was so appauled at his statement to the rich folk . As many of us who are Diabetics we would surely suffer great oppression under Mitt Romney if he ever get into the White House!! They government took get money out of my paycheck for many years now I have to jump through all kinds of hoops and act a lot off to get assistance.

IronOre 2012-09-20 22:49:36 -0500 Report

This is only the start of things to come as far as Obama goes. The guy is as bad as they get.

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-09-20 13:31:45 -0500 Report

Being the die hard Democrat that I am, I saw that this tax would only apply to those who can afford to pay for their own insurance. I am still waiting to see more on the topic. Yahoo, isn't the most reliable news source. So I have to read more from different sites.

IronOre 2012-09-20 22:51:20 -0500 Report

you are right Yahoo is not a reliable source - But things are so bad with Obabma right now I wouldn't doubt it so much

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-09-20 23:22:34 -0500 Report

I am not concerned too much with things being right or wrong with Obama or the Republican party. How ever I do support some of his efforts. I am concerned with people not having health insurance and not being able to afford it. The rich can afford a hospital bill so it isn't a problem for them however, what happens if you or I get sick and can't afford the bill? Hospitals turn over the account to a collection agency and they attach your property to get paid.

IronOre 2012-09-21 12:35:57 -0500 Report

Well, so far I really have not heard anything about free insurance for anybody.
But what I have heard is that he will make those without health insurance purchase it or be fined.
I don't think most know for sure what Obama Care is, so I am not sure how anybody can support it.
So exactly what are "his efforts"?
Here isn Wisconsin we have a good plan for those who cannot afford health care, and I feel it should be up to each state to do a plan, because they know their citizens the best.

IronOre 2012-09-21 12:35:55 -0500 Report

Well, so far I really have not heard anything about free insurance for anybody.
But what I have heard is that he will make those without health insurance purchase it or be fined.
I don't think most know for sure what Obama Care is, so I am not sure how anybody can support it.
So exactly what are "his efforts"?
Here isn Wisconsin we have a good plan for those who cannot afford health care, and I feel it should be up to each state to do a plan, because they know their citizens the best.

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-09-21 12:57:21 -0500 Report

Actually the states really don't know their citizens very well. Their information is based on people who are on roles for medicaid. A state could have 400,000 people on medicaid yet 500,000 people who aren't and 300,000 of those people have no health insurance because they either have not applied for medicaid or were denied.

You ever notice how they judge the jobless rate. They base them on unemployment statistics. So those not on unemployment because they don't qualify, who are unemployed and never applied or those whose unemployment has run out and are still unemployed are not counted. This means more people are unemployed than we think.

Our city health department did a report on each community in the city. It is basically a generic report that can be used in any major city in this country. The needs of the citizens states they want better education, healthcare and affordable housing. Think about it, outside of the rich and upper middle class who doesn't want affordable housing? Everyone from the poor to the rich want better education and a lot of people want healthcare.

From my understanding of Obama Care, the wealthy people will be fined or taxed. I am awaiting more information. You are right some states already have health plans in place for those in need but not everyone qualifies.

jayabee52 2012-09-20 12:49:57 -0500 Report

I am not surprised whatsoever.

Call it "the law of unintended consequences", but what the Dems intended as "good" has morphed into a tax on those people they intended to help.

And what will be the downside of bringing all those formerly uninsured people coming onto the active medical consumers? Take a look at Canada and repeat after me "rationing of medical service." I have read somewhere that 83% of Drs are actively considering no longer providing medical care for people. These are frightening times.

Nick1962 2012-09-20 10:45:20 -0500 Report

Well, let’s first consider the convenient timing of this “revelation”. I’m a staunch republican and even I see this as return volley for the democrat’s reaction to Romney’s “47%” comment, even though the AP writer (Alonso-Zaldivar) has previously taken shots at Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan. Accurate or not, I expect to see more of this before November.

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-09-20 13:33:41 -0500 Report

Nick, Republican, Democrat, Independent, Tea Party Member doesn't matter, sooner or later government comes to kick you to remind you they are there. Hopefully those who cannot afford health insurance will not be taxed.

Nick1962 2012-09-20 13:54:30 -0500 Report

Oh I’ll agree with that. No matter what happens in November, the health care and insurance system will still be screwed up, and will need to be fixed independent of any political leanings. Unfortunately, to do that some things will need to be cut and some people will suffer adversely because of it. I believe it can be done, and even that some of those adverse consequences will be necessary to some to motivate them to a better way of life.

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-09-21 10:32:37 -0500 Report

Nick, the reality of it is when the budget swings its mighty ax, people suffer and have for decades. The first thing to go are services for the people. The same people who complained about people on welfare are seeking those services today.

Our Mayor has closed Recreation Centers, Fire Houses and public pools are being subsidized by private entities. There are people who have been on the waiting list for 10 years waiting for public housing. People blame Obama. He did not create this problem he inherited it when he became President. Nearly every person elected to an office inherited the problems of those before him/her. We the People of the United States created this problem by not holding our elected officials accountable for what they were doing or allowed to be done with tax money they collected.

HUD has finally opened their eyes and are investigating rents for properties of people who accept housing vouchers. For instance in an area of a city where many homes are vacant and dilapidated, a person buys a property, renovates it and has it inspected to be certified for Section 8 housing through HUD. The homeowner charges $1,500 rent and the renter pays $200.00 a month and HUD pays the balance. Now if the homeowner doesn't keep the property up and the renter destroys the property the house is now vacant again because HUD isn't going to put up money for repairs and the homeowner made the money back on the renovation and moves on.

States with Lotteries get them because money from sales are earmarked for Schools, Roads or what ever yet the money never makes it to where it was supposed to go. In most cases, the money ends up in the State's General Fund and is spent on other things.

Therefore, the people can't complain because A. they don't vote or B. they do not hold elected officials accountable. Until the people start screaming "We Have Had Enough" and take back control of the country, it will remain as it is. We can send billions of dollars to aid other country's yet can't help the people here.

During Desert Storm, when our military asked France if we could use their airspace to fly our planes to the Middle East, France said no. George Bush told them if you don't you will have to repay all of the money loaned to you back in full. They let the US use their airspace. Why can't they turn over the debts to other countries to a collection agency and let that agency put liens on their property or take their property to repay the debt?. The government does it to us if we don't have the money to pay tax bills.

Nick1962 2012-09-21 11:56:20 -0500 Report

You know Joyce, I bet it would be fun to take a cruise with you. We could sit back in a deck chair, cocktail in hand and solve all the world’s problems.
I certainly agree with you here even though we are politically on opposite sides of the fence. I get to be involved with projects with ARRA (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act) or “stimulus” funding. Of the last 10 projects I’ve been involved with only 2 have ever been completed because either the promised funding had a deadline to be used that was unrealistic, or the money was handed out in such a way (or with unrealistic restrictions) the project couldn’t be sustained. A lot of time, effort and money has been wasted on the promise of stimulus funds that in reality just never materialized.
It almost sounds like Joyce that you are a proponent of less government involvement. Are you sure you’re not a closet republican? I firmly believe that if we, as a country had more absolute say in where the money went, things would be a whole lot better. Sure, I’m not a big fan of the welfare system (as it stands now anyway), but I’m not so heartless as to say there shouldn’t be one.
I think we both recognize there has to be a change, and that it won’t come through government.

annesmith 2012-09-22 02:13:22 -0500 Report

Hi..this is Anne. I am a "liberal" Republican. They say there is no such a thing, ha,ha,ha. If we , as a country had more absolute say in where the money went, things would be a whole lot better..I agree completely. I am positive that the new Obama care , going into effect in 2016 will create healthcare for all, yes, BUT, it's going to be rationed..bad. People I found out will be seeing 99% physicians assistants and nurse practitioners. I guess this is better than nothing, but, I also found out hospitals will be turning a lot of people away, then fining the people that refuse to go home…I think that's terrible. However, I am not always the brightest of the bunch when it comes to politics, so ALL APOLOGIES to everyone . What I am scared of is the fact that no matter which party is in office, it's just a serious serious bad bad situation, no matter what. I found out through a really good Republican friend of mine that many many doctors will leave the profession if/when Obama Care goes into full effect. I basically feel nervous about the whole situation, and am going to keep praying to God that everybody can receive high quality health care. ANNE

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-09-23 16:32:07 -0500 Report

Anne, it doesn't matter to me if you are a liberal or conservative Republican or Democrat. You have an opinion you are willing to share and you raised excellent points. I understand your fears and concerns but the reality is, no matter what happens with Obamacare, the government simply does not monitor their own programs.

I am not worried about physicians leaving the practice, Hopkins is filled every year with medical students. Look at health care now. Unless you have a serious illness you do not stay in the hospital for a long period of time. Your insurance company allows in some cases a specific amount of days for in-hospital care.

From working in a hospital, I know social workers try to find patients a place to live once they leave. The government has a pilot program that is currently in operation in 5 states to remove people of all ages in Nursing Homes/Rehabilitation Centers who are able to live on their own or in an Assisted Living Facility out of an In-house Nursing Facility. It is cheaper for the government to do this than to pay for in-house care.

My boss had a grant for the program in my city. It works in this manner:
We trained people with disabilities who at one time in their lives lived in a Nursing Home and were now living on their own to visit nursing homes. We had access to everyone living in a nursing home without being under the care of a guardian. Our peers told their stories to residents stating what happened to them, why they were in a nursing home and how they left to live on their own. We had to visit over 3000 people in 33 Nursing homes. If the resident said they were interested, I entered the information in a database. A social worker evaluated the resident with the social worker at the facility and the doctor. If the resident could move out, housing and medical care was provided for them in their own homes, in assisted living or if they lived with a family member. When the program ended more than half qualified. Nursing homes didn't like the program but with more and more people needing in-house care for long or short term, there simply wasn't space.

I support Obamacare because people need healthcare. We can't say how the program will work and what laws/rules or regulations hospitals will have to follow or how people will be fined or taxed because nothing has been ironed out. I plan to wait and see and not be scared or worry about it.

I agree with your 150% it doesn't matter if a patient sees a PA or Nurse Practitioner because it is better than not seeing anyone.

annesmith 2012-09-24 02:16:48 -0500 Report

Yeah, what you said makes sense. There are positives, and , like you said, nothing has been ironed out. I plan on focusing on the positive. I do know one thing is fact: Healthcare has got to change..it's just been way too long so many people have not been able to afford insurance. It's confusing to me. China makes everything, so how can we have jobs here ,then? OH, it's so exasperating, to say the very least. I know of a man that was healthy all his life, then all of a sudden had a massive heart attack. He worked all his life, paid all his bills, but he could not afford health insurance. He got the bill in the mail, and it was atrocious—-he rapidly then fell behind on his taxes, and he got summoned to court for extremely late federal taxes, in the meantime, the hospital turned him into collections. WHAT a nightmare!! He was so stressed he did not sleep for DAYS, he had dark circles under his eyes, and he was shaking like a leaf—-boy, I feel sorry for him. ANNE

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-09-24 18:54:14 -0500 Report

Anne these things happen all over this country. Steel Plants closed because it is cheaper to have steel made in China. I called about my Kodak printer and the phone is answered in India. This country Exported Jobs and Imported mostly everything we use. Does Made in the USA still exist?

The insurance industries make million from insurance sales yet when you file a claim far too often they are denied. So you pay out of your pocket to pay a lawyer you can't afford who racks up a huge bill to fight for what you should have gotten when you filed your claim.

The fact of the matter is there are a lot of people who don't see a doctor because they don't have insurance. There are a lot of people working who can't afford to pay for insurance and companies are charging higher prices for health insurance benefits. I had a $1,500.00 deductible on health insurance and when I had a car, I had a $500.00 deductible(People don't know that a lower deductible on your car insurance only raises the bill about 20 bucks) why is that and how is that possible.

That is horrible about what happened to this man. No one should go through that. Hospitals are in business to make money and to do this they raise hospital rates for everything.

Nick1962 2012-09-22 15:03:05 -0500 Report

Shhh, I won't say anything about your liberalism if you don't out my liberal leanings. I am nervous about it myself. I think the tea party and occupy movements will turn out to be just the start of a whole new set of revolts. And I think it wil be aimed directly at government, just not one party, and something like Obamacare (just as a catalyst cause) is just the thing to set it off. Romneys comment about 47% of americans not paying taxes, albeit poorly worded, got me to thinking. What if that number became more like 75%. I know I've reaced the age where I don't really need a whole lot of money other than to pay bills. I'm really seriously thinking about retiring early and getting a job just enough to cover myself. Be poor enough to not pay the 18% taxes I pay, plus qualify for a bunch of government programs. Hmm, I guess I just found a way not to pay taxes. What would the government do then?

annesmith 2012-09-23 03:14:36 -0500 Report

I am with you all the way..I fear particularly revolts. My friend who is very Republican told me there will be revolts in the very near future, and that this country within 30 years we will not even recognize anymore—-I'm just going to keep PRAYING to the Almighty, that somehow, some way, that stuff will not happen, or happen as little as possible. It sounds like I am dreaming I guess. Back to healthcare..yeah, I have heard through several people Obamacare is just the thing to set it off. ANNE

Nick1962 2012-09-23 18:38:57 -0500 Report

Yeah, and in a way I guess i feel a little sympathy for the democrats. I do have to give credit for taking a shot at fixing things, but to have this as the building point does kind of take away from the real intent which was helping people.
I barely recognize the world now versus 30 years ago. I just went through a newspaper I kept from 1994. It's funny, there were no ads for cell service, no articles about texting and driving, no ads for apps. Not sure I want to see the next 30 years, but unfortunately, sometimes it takes a forest fire to lay bare ground for new growth. Prayers needed indeed!

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-09-21 12:28:15 -0500 Report

LOL I love cruises. As long as my frozen Margaritas are endless we could solve the worlds problems. It isn't about political affiliation, it is about the people. By the way I am not a closet Republican that would scare me…LOL.

I believe it was Teddy Roosevelt who started the welfare system(not sure have to research that) and it was not meant for entire generation of families to live off of. The same is true of housing projects, generations of families were not meant to live in them. What actually happened is the government did not monitor these programs.

Our state has a state complex with outdated buildings that is a few blocks outside of our community. The state involved community and businesses in the redevelopment of the land. The plan involves demolition of the site and rebuild with state offices, retail and housing. The plan also includes selling the property to a developer and leasing it back in a manner that will actually cost them more money in leases than they got from the sale. Less than 10 blocks away is the downtown shopping district that looks like a Ghost Town 3 blocks away is another shopping district of small businesses and retail stores with a lot of empty space. What has happened is the business district hired a powerful attorney who is tying the state up in court at every turn. It makes no sense for the state to sell owned property to then lease it back.

I am not a proponent for less government, I am a proponent for government with a brain and smart people to operate it. Our government is it's own worse enemy. We have a lot of red tape to cut through when trying to get our government to work for us and the government has its own red tape. Our congressmen and senators take office with their own personal agendas and those agendas do nothing for the people.

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