The “soda restriction” debate. Who really controls your consumption?

Nick1962
By Nick1962 Latest Reply 2012-06-23 15:06:59 -0500
Started 2012-06-12 14:38:02 -0500

Most of us remember back in ‘84 when Michael Jackson was seriously injured during a Pepsi commercial shoot. On a lighter side, we also remember the cute polar bears coming out around Christmas during those cute Coke commercials too. And who can forget the huge smiling Kool Aid pitcher yelling “OH YEAH!” while breaking through a wall. Just commercials right?

Well, not so says former Coke exec Todd Putman as he addressed the recent “"National Soda Summit" June 7th and 8th in Washington. Billions in advertising are being spent in order to capture “stomach share” – or to get “more ounces in more people”. People like you and me, and they’ve done so admirably.

In this article;
http://azstarnet.com/business/local/former-co...
Putman explains how while at Coke, his job was to promote product, and did so successfully to the point that consumption of milk dropped below that of consumption of soda. A result he took pride in - after all, it was his job. Now however, Putman seems to have a karmic reaction and is not so prideful any more.

In this similar article;
http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/06/12/stopp...
Putman and the Bloomburg issue are also mentioned, and a proposal was made in the town of Richmond California to add a penny per ounce tax on sweetened drinks with proceeds to fund education. It also highlights what Canada is doing as a result of the recent “soda uproar”.

So why do these companies spend billions on advertising? Well, as stated before, to get you to drink more (and for them to make more money). But have you ever noticed that the worse a product is for you, the heavier the marketing? Have you ever seen a commercial for say, carrots? The only one I remotely recall involving vegetables is for Hidden Valley ranch dressing. And it’s not just beverages and drinks. Even Subway, while still using Jared Fogle as their success story of healthy eating of their products, shows actors in commercials actively munching on a 12 inch sub which is two servings, and depending on the sandwich, over 100 carbs.

I understand why, and agree we don’t want government imposing restrictions on us. Where will it end? However, it seems like we may be slamming the front door on the good guys, but leaving that back door wide open for the bad guys. The ones really controlling our diet.


87 replies

old biker
old biker 2012-06-21 05:44:22 -0500 Report

Looks like NYC might just have started a national trend..I found this today.
http://news.yahoo.com/diabetes-doctors-nyc-bi..... Can't get this link to work..Sorry

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-21 07:47:46 -0500 Report
old biker
old biker 2012-06-21 08:05:50 -0500 Report

Like mine I can't get your yahoo link to the article to work..Says page can't be found..But anyway..Nick I wasn't going to say anything,But LOL you mentioned it..I can't believe you are still smoking..No I'm not going to rag you about it..Not at this time.. :-)

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-21 08:23:03 -0500 Report

For some reason, when you get to that "oops" page, if you copy the URL at the top and paste it into google, it is the first article returned. Don't know why, but it worked before I posted.
And yeah, i can't believe i still am either after 35 years. For me its an oral fixation. I find myself lighting up and not even enjoying it. I have no cravings to do it when I can't, if I go someplace with the wife on a day trip I don't even take them along. I'm going to try hypnosis and accupuncture. Patch and pills did nothing.

old biker
old biker 2012-06-21 09:08:13 -0500 Report

I tried them all except acupuncture, nothing worked but back then I wasn't that serious about quiting..What worked for me this time was I was serious and my mind set was different..I went back on chantix for the second time..I never had any problems with it and it does work..I'm long past the price of the prescription..It's not cheap, but you can't put a price on your health.. Good luck my friend .."a year from now you will wish you started today" :-)

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-21 09:55:45 -0500 Report

Yeah, my doc won't let me do Chantix (can't blame him). Since diabetics weren't used in the testing (basically, only "healthy" people were) there's no telling what it will do. I'm also not fond of the neuropsychiatric side effects - i have some pretty bizarre dreams on my own without help thanks. I did try a drug that doesn't try to curb the nicotine addiction, but actually makes you sick if you smoke. I powered through that in a about a week (since I don't have the nicotine addiction) and just kept smoking while on the pill (you can really do anything if you set your mind to it).
Like everything else in my life I've given up, I'm sure my day will come with this too.

old biker
old biker 2012-06-21 10:20:13 -0500 Report

The weird dreams was worth the price of admission LOL..I wish you luck and I' have no doubt you will succeed..Like Hunter S Thompson would say.."buy the ticket, take the ride"

karenality
karenality 2012-06-16 12:32:31 -0500 Report

This is one thing I DO have problems with…And it hurts my battle with diabetes…It's probably the reason why I came down with it in the first place. Dr. Pepper (and Oreo cookies). I cut out the cookies…and I restricted myself to one (maybe 2) sodas per day. Occasionally I will switch to the Diet Cherry Vanilla Dr. Pepper…but right now I can't afford it so I buy the store-brand regular Dr. P. I just can't seem to develop the taste for diet Dr. P…even if it is store-brand. HELP!!!!! *drink more water* It's like giving up smoking when you're a smoker…Thank goodness I've never smoked!

old biker
old biker 2012-06-21 06:00:07 -0500 Report

I know where you are coming from..I could have been the poster boy for Pepsi..I always had a pepsi in my hand..I hated all and any diet soda..When my BGL got out of control I knew I had to change..I found Nestles diet green tea was tolerable..I started with that..It took awhile to get used to it but now I can't drink a non diet soda, they all taste to sweet to me..You can develope a taste for diet soda..If I can you can too :-)

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-16 19:14:20 -0500 Report

Well, I was never a soda drinker, but i am a smoker so I can sympathise with the addiction. At some point i know I'm quitting, but until then if someone banned cigarettes, I'd probably roll grass clippings if I had to.

old biker
old biker 2012-06-15 09:57:16 -0500 Report

Hi nick..what do you think the food cops would say about this..Caught this on yahoo news,,You can't fix stupid..I can't understand why we bother to try and save these fools ..Instead I would just step over them and walk on..
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/another-...

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-15 12:08:33 -0500 Report

That looks like a great burger! I think I'd like one (well a bite at least).
Gut reaction (pun intended), stuff like that shouldn't be sold HOWEVER, by my own criteria, they do put a disclaimer on their stuff that it's not healthy, so you have been warned. At that point, it's on you, so if they can sell it, fine.

That's pretty much my line - if KFC (or whoever) put any type of verbage on their Double Down sandwich packaging saying "this item exceeds the recommended daily allowance of…" or similar, not even using the word "warning", then I'd have no problems.

Heart Attack grill is smart, they're avoiding a lawsuit. I can just see a class action suit coming up against "big food" claiming their product caused (insert named illnesses here) by people who claim ignorance or vague warnings on packaging. Happened with cigarettes!

old biker
old biker 2012-06-15 12:47:15 -0500 Report

..I have to bite my tongue when the tobacco industry is concerned..They knew the poison they where dealing..They went out of their way to alter nicotine to make cigarettes as addicting as possible,,Their own industry chemists referred to cigarettes as nothing more than a nicotine delivery system, that they were hired to fine tune.. OK let me stop here, before I get on a roll and light up a cigarette..JUST KIDDING lol

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-15 13:46:53 -0500 Report

Oh i know! I don't see this as any different. Many companies put stuff in their products to promote consumption. McDonald's up until the 90's used about 7% beef tallow to fry the fries in. Domino's uses anise in their crust. For some reason, chemists figured out the "flavor triggers" and there is some really odd stuff we'd never think of consuming in foods. Probably why we can't home duplicate them.

old biker
old biker 2012-06-15 14:28:36 -0500 Report

Promoting consumption is one thing..But their industry chemists were looking for ways to make their product more addicting, that's a big difference…And then for years flat out lied about the long term effect even lying about the results of their own industry studies..If you or I did something that blatantly caused someones death through reckless endangerment…We would be sitting in jail on manslaughter charges.. They did all this and got what amounted to was a slap on the wrist..They didn't care how many people they killed as long as the money rolled in..

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-15 14:42:15 -0500 Report

I suspect the "slap on the wrist" was about all the government could do. They're one of those "too big to fail" industries that even if they fined the daylights out of them, 20% of the american population still smokes and revenue stream continues. Shutting down big tobacco would be devestating to my state's economy, who would then be looking to the government for assistance.
Yes, the tobacco companies did shoot themselves in the foot, but so did the government.

jayabee52
jayabee52 2012-06-15 12:28:43 -0500 Report

Actually some friends invited me to Heart Attack Grill when they were here 2 wks ago. I went with them to the "Mob museum" but after looking on their menu on their website (front here ~ http://www.heartattackgrill.com/MenuInside.jpg Back here ~ http://www.heartattackgrill.com/MenuOutside.jpg website here ~ http://www.heartattackgrill.com/ ) I decided to skip the meal there.

Perhaps I could have gone, but from a yelp review or two I read on it, it sounded like it was NOT somewhere I would want to go. French fries in fried in Lard? give me a break!

I also do not understand how they're smoking in the Resturaunt? Smoking in a resturaunt is supposed to be against the Law in NV.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-15 14:14:11 -0500 Report

One meal there could feed 4 of us easy. That Nurse Kacy sure bears a resemblence to someone here! Might have to get a t-shirt.

jayabee52
jayabee52 2012-06-15 15:00:26 -0500 Report

but note it says on the site "no sharing" — and wearing the T-shirt will not give you the heart attack but the food sure wil!. At least it will if it is prepared as described.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-15 15:12:10 -0500 Report

then I guess I'll never taste one. Funny, i grew up in a german family and everything was cooked in lard or bacon fat. I don't recall having and type of cooking oil in our house until I was in my late teens. On can in the frig was for bacon drippings and we got a white plastic tub of lard from the butcher. And everyone smoked!

jayabee52
jayabee52 2012-06-15 15:28:52 -0500 Report

pretty much describes my youth also! Except we butchered our own hogs, rendered our own lard, and very few in our family smoked. There were a lot of heart problems in my extended family.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-15 15:44:56 -0500 Report

Males in my family died by about 55, females at 80. Hoping with all my hard work I've beat the odds, but yea, alot of heart issues. My luck after all this work I get hit by a bus.

old biker
old biker 2012-06-13 06:11:26 -0500 Report

Good post nick,,more food for thought..But right now we have the.Tobacco, alcohol, sugar, fast food, and the pharmiaceutical industry. Just to name a few, and a whole host of special interest groups..All spending major bucks promoting bad health..And then there are major cities that just by breathing the air presents a major health issue just by living there…These are all problems that can't be fixed with a roll of duct tape.. There was a time when I was a young idealist and thought we could change the world..I was told by a very wise old man..That the secret to life ..Is not to go out and try to change the world. But to strive to not let the world change you..Just thought I would put my 2 cents in
There are no good or bad guys..people are responsible for their own actions

Gabby
GabbyPA 2012-06-13 09:58:08 -0500 Report

Bravo! I love your secret to life. That is the key. To not let the world change you. It is hard and we are tempted. I know I was on the wrong side most all of my life. Now I am getting back to my roots. I grow a lot of my own food, I can now (something new) and more and more I am trying to take charge of what I do and consume (and not just in food)

Until we stop wanting to blame others for our conditions, we will get no where. We must see what others are doing to us before we can decide to change it.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-13 07:58:29 -0500 Report

Wise words indeed. I'm not naive enough to think I'll change anything, at best get some folks to think.

Gabby
GabbyPA 2012-06-13 09:59:18 -0500 Report

Ah, but if you can get people to start to think, it can open up a whole new world to them. We can plant the seeds of change. Some will grow, some will not. Some may even produce more seeds to share. It is a wonderful thing.

old biker
old biker 2012-06-13 09:06:27 -0500 Report

And that you do..Your posts always makes me stop and think..I just like playing the devil's advocate at times..There is plenty of food to eat out there..But not enough food for thought..Keep it up my friend

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-13 10:03:26 -0500 Report

Thanks, well, i think that's why I post some stuff. Not necessarily to get my own point across or voice my opinion, but to open up a dialogue. Often when we start getting into debates we stumble on some really good ideas. Almost every morning i hear some news story about our deteriorating diet and food choices. I could just post that, but it really doesn't encourage participation.

red flower lady
red flower lady 2012-06-12 18:58:43 -0500 Report

Companies advertise their products, some more aggresive then others and it will always be that way. Since the government is always going to have their hands in what we eat, it comes down to us using our brains and making the decision to eat healthier and limit portion sizes. We really don't need the super size anything, unless you have plans of spliting it up between a couple of people. We do have free will and need to exercise it more often, maybe less tv watching to avoid all the adds if you happen to be one of the weaker consumers they aim for? Of course we all are going to slip once in a while for what ever the reason, but it's all about getting back on track. I think if a person grabs the fast food and larger sizes the majority of the time, then they need to find out why they do so and try to change. A good nutrition class and maybe even a cooking class would be great or even getting books about the two from the library.

You'll be surprised how much you actually spend weekly if you save all the receipts and then total at the end of the week. Use the same money to make meals at home and it will stretch out to more food/choices. I know, I have actually done this. People with kids have to learn to say "no" more often and eventually they will let up on the hounding. Kids look to the adults as role models, I like to say "what kind of role model am I" when doing things. It is hard work to make changes, but can be done and so worth it.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-12 19:00:29 -0500 Report

Agree 100%, but those role models have to be re-taught what's correct.

red flower lady
red flower lady 2012-06-12 19:22:41 -0500 Report

Agree right back at you. Another great discussion. I so long for the days I grew up in, it really was much easier and healthier.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-12 19:29:45 -0500 Report

It's always been said that eating healthy costs more. But when you consider how much you spend on medications, testing supplies, etc. that you're not spending when you're in good health, it's actually cheaper.

red flower lady
red flower lady 2012-06-12 19:50:26 -0500 Report

So true. I like to go to the fruit/vegetable open markets as you get a better deal then the stores. Some places have farms by them or with in reason and you can pick your own, I let the kids do it. When you actually plan out meals it really isn't expensive, since you usually get more then one meal out of it. But I do understand you.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-12 20:40:40 -0500 Report

Exactly! And that's the kind of education most folks lack. I'm only cooking for two (and we only cook weekends), so if i have a hankering for a BLT wrap, what to do with the rest of the tomato? I dice up the remainder for my weekly "salad bar" fixin's. The bacon gets used up for breakfasts, or more salad fixin's…you get the point. Thinking about, and planning for getting the most out of your shopping dollar is something that few do these days. Seems like its "i'm hungry, satisfy me now" is the norm with no more thought. I frankly like the challenge. Maybe we could do that as another thread! Kind of a "Master Chef" - just put out a list of foods and see who could make the best and economical meals out of them.?

Gabby
GabbyPA 2012-06-13 10:01:57 -0500 Report

Ok, do that won't you? That would be fun. Our version of "Chopped" and we should post recipes in there too...I'm waiting.

If you don't want to, I will start one off. This would be a lot of fun.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-13 10:07:37 -0500 Report

Well, how about this. Give me a day to lay some ground rules (which we can adjust as needed), see how the first one goes, and make it a "round robin" Maybe next week you present a "mystery box" of ingredients, then someone else can present a challenge. Get everybody involved either as challenger or challenged.

red flower lady
red flower lady 2012-06-12 20:58:36 -0500 Report

Oooo, I LOVE that idea! I think it would be fun as well as informative, especially if the meals could be what us diabetics need to keep in mind, carbs, salt, sugar, etc. I know not everyone cooks that way though, so we might have to do our own tweeking with a recipe. You have to do it since you have such a great way with words and writing!! With my eyesight, I usually spell something wrong as well as don't always state my meaning clearly:(

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-12 21:18:24 -0500 Report

No, you could do it! Just pick a few ingredients and see who could come up with a good meal. Spices, milk, water, broth, garnishes like parsley and lemon would be a given, but just see what spinach, whole chicken breasts, pineapple, and peanuts would make.

red flower lady
red flower lady 2012-06-13 02:25:44 -0500 Report

You are talking to someone who can make cold cereal really well:D That is why my husband the chef does the cooking, I don't like to cook, just eat:)

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-06-12 18:54:57 -0500 Report

Nick food is like clothing. Just because they make an outfit in your size doesn't mean it looks good on you. The fit and the color may not be right for your body shape or coloring. Just because Burger King is about to introduce a new Bacon Ice Cream Cone does not mean you have to eat it. You make the bad clothing choice because you either don't care how it looks on you or because you have to have it. The same is true with food. You eat it knowing it is bad for you but you simply don't care.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-12 18:58:40 -0500 Report

Now i disagree with that. Some folks have no clue that bacon ice cream isn't good for them. In fact, it's not really - if used in certain proportions. That's the information that isn't being supplied. And no, not everyone knows a 12" subway sub is two servings, and a 16" pizza is actually 8.

Gabby
GabbyPA 2012-06-13 10:10:26 -0500 Report

I always thought a 12" sub was 4 servings. It is 3 servings in our house when I make them home made.

Actually it all kind of boils down to laziness. We can read the labels, we can read the ingredients, and we can cook at home. We can, but we often don't. Even I am still finding that I assume things that are untrue. That is no ones fault but mine, because if I read the "instructions" I would know how to build my meal.

A recent example is brown sugar. I thought it was less processed sugar, thus the "brown". Nope..it's processed sugar with molasses added back! That is not what it's supposed to be. But clear as day on the package, there it was. Thanks to DC members for pointing that out to me. So now I have to pay a lot more for less processing (go figure) But now I read the labels more carefully.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-13 11:37:10 -0500 Report

According to Subway's nutritional page, 6" is a "serving" in their eyes, which does actually fall within most guidelines.
I'm not sure it's laziness at the heart, but our need to do everything so quickly. We've become accustomed to convenience and convenience foods. I had a friend from Venezuela comment once "why you in such a hurry to cook the food? Why you don't slow down and enjoy de passion of it? Then when you eat, eet is like making love!" She introduced me to the concept of the 4 hour meal - first you prepeare the appetizer, then eat it, then a portion of the main course, then eat it..and so on.
But I agree it is laziness to a good degree, which is why i eat so simply. No need to worry about counting, measuring etc.

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-06-12 20:46:33 -0500 Report

Nick the person eating the 12 inch sub or an entire 16 inch pizza who is a very active person isn't worrying too much about whether or not it is good for them. Depending on if a person has lunch before eating two slices of pizza more than likely isn't going to care that they should have only one slice. No matter what, when people want to be informed they will seek out the information. There is nothing anyone can do about a person choosing not to be informed any more that anyone can do something to make people decide to eat healthy.

I dare anyone to go into McDonalds at lunch time with a bull horn and tell the customers the food they are about to order or eat isn't a healthy meal. The person with the bull horn would either be told to shut up, get out or mind your business and if they continue they may be arrested for creating a public disturbance.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-12 20:57:48 -0500 Report

Already had that McDonald's thought. Rather than the bullhorn, what if you questioned everyone in the drive through if they knew how much of their daily recommended allowance they were leaving with? I'd bet less than 25% would know. The remaining 75% (you're right) either wouldn't care, or sadly would simply say "no problem, I've been eating this way for years and I'm not sick". Kind of like saying down all the vodka you want, just stay out of the car and everything will be allright.

Gabby
GabbyPA 2012-06-13 10:18:33 -0500 Report

Have you ever seen the movie "Super Size Me"? It is an eye opener. That guy is nuts for the things he does, but he does it to bring awareness. He did McDonald's for 30 days and his health suffered from it. Weight gain, blood pressure and what is worse, it became almost like an addiction. He hated it at first, got used to it, craved it to a point, but in the end, it made him feel crappy. Granted, most don't consume it 3 meals a day for 30 days. But we eat a lot of junk other than fast food that has the same results.

At the same time, you see how sad it is that the poor of this country are often left with choosing between four apples or 4 dollar value meals to feed his family. He will go with what fills them up the most, even if it is junk. Shoot, in Haiti, they eat mud pies, literally. Just to fill their bellies and people sell them! So people buy them, just to fill a tummy. When you are poor, you buy what is in quantity, not always quality.

gbc43
gbc43 2012-06-13 12:53:19 -0500 Report

You are your own master, you put stuff in your mouth so its your picks. Now we go back to the classes and things you been told and live with. Think of it as a numbers game and the rules are set. Its easy for people who are not trained in this field to make a wrong pick thinking its good.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-13 11:26:40 -0500 Report

Yes, i have, and for a while during college (first and second time) i did the same thing. I think I ate off my dashboard for two years straight and i remember feeling just as crappy. I don't miss that feeling.

There was an article on our local radio news this morning about fast food and child nutrition. Can't seem to find the text on it, but the message is getting out there. this is a case where i could see some government aid in the form of food vouchers for fresh fruits and such.

red flower lady
red flower lady 2012-06-12 21:08:50 -0500 Report

Until it isn't! Then the same people who want to do as they please will be the very same ones to not accept the blame and yell the loudest.

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-06-12 18:15:28 -0500 Report

It comes down to choice. I am a fan of Pepsi and I switched from regular to diet. It is all about money. The M&M company brought M&M's to life, Pepsi had bears doing the Macarina and how many kids do you see running to a salad bar? Subways subs are basically toppings with bread and 3 pieces of meat. Now they are marketing a machine that makes soda out of water. I read the labels on line and the diet has no carbs while the regular cola for some have 8 grams of carbs.

If I ate everything that is advertised I would not be able to get out my front door. Just because it is promoted, do we really have to eat it. People are going to make a choice to eat or drink advertised products regardless if their decision is good or bad.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-12 18:30:08 -0500 Report

Well Joyce, i guess that's my point. Through advertising, many companies entice us into buying and consuming (and overconsuming) their products. You, like most of us here are now educated through your diagnosis not to partake in these foods. Unfortunately, many are not, and are believing that a whole 12" sub is a perfectly acceptable meal, along with chips and a 32 oz. drink. This meal goes well beyond any ADA or national nutrition guidlines for a healthy meal, yet they are allowed to be advertised with no restriction to anyone healthy or not. To me, this is no different than a shopping channel staging it's viewership hours to prey on those with shopping addictions. This type of advertising is changing our national diet (and not for the better) just as Putman states in the article. Yes, it comes down to choice, but again, an educated one.

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-06-12 18:52:14 -0500 Report

Nick it isn't always about educated decisions. There are diabetics who know that eating a box of cookies and washing them down with a bottle of soda isn't good for them. There are people with high blood pressure who know that eating high sodium and fried foods isn't good for them. People know that a lot of candy and sugar isn't good for their teeth or their health but at the end of the day, they will make the choice to sit down and eat it.

I have seen over weight doctors, nurses, college professors, social workers, and people from all professions that require a degree. These are educated people who made bad choices when it comes to eating.

Not one of us actually knows what is going on with a person physically, mentally or medically. There are people on medications that cause weight gain, people with thyroid problems, people who use food for comfort, people who will eat the newest item on the fast food menu just because its there. There is absolutely nothing the government, physicians, therapist or advertisers can do about a persons choice when it comes to their diets. You cannot force anyone to eat a healthy meal anymore than you can force a person to go on a diet.

If you constantly berate a person for what they eat, how much they eat, that they should go on a diet or exercise they are not going to do it until they want to do so. The only thing you are doing to your friends or loved ones is making them miserable. Anyone over weight can probably tell you they loss weight for a reason. If you have a person who is over weight unhappy and miserable who uses food to comfort them, all they are going to do is eat more food because they know that piece of Chocolate Cake will make them feel better for the moment. So until an individual decides to eat healthy there is absolutely nothing you, me or anyone else can do to make them change their minds about their diets until they make the choice themselves.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-12 18:54:57 -0500 Report

Don't disagree at all. My point is not to force individuals to eat a certain way. My point is not to allow advertisers to prey on the weak.

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-06-12 19:03:40 -0500 Report

Nick I don't look at it as preying on the weak. It is about offering something they think the public really wants and sitting back and reaping in the benefits of their purchases. For every "weak" person who buys a product there is a "strong" person who doesn't. Just because you see it doesn't mean you have to buy it. Some people simply are addicted to shopping and must have the newest gadget, clothing fad, auto, etc. It is still the choices they make.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-12 19:37:13 -0500 Report

Not saying we'll rehibiltate the addicted, simply saying we have some moral responsibility as a society not to prey on them/take advantage of them. This is exactly what Putman was saying in the article. Just because you know nothing about cars, would it be right for me to exploit that and get every cent out of you as a mechanic fixing thigs that didn't need fixing?

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-06-12 20:40:05 -0500 Report

I absolutely refuse to be a part of the morals police. With a country that is becoming more and more diverse each year, not all people share the same morals or values. What I may think is immoral may be moral to you. What is missing is nutritional information for fast food products. This information isn't posted anywhere in a restaurant which again be counterproductive to them. They are not going to want people ordering salads instead of a triple burger with cheese. are not available in fast food restaurants. If advertisers promote a product it would be counterproductive for them to tell you that a 16" pizza is eight servings and you shouldn't eat the entire pizza. There job is to promote a product to make money for themselves and their client. It is the responsibility of the consumer to become informed about products they see advertised.

If you pay attention to what is advertised, businesses usually promote big tagged items. Food ads are produced to make the food look irresistible to the point you want to rush right out and buy it or race to the kitchen and get it. You can't make people morally responsible for anything either because people over look morals when they want something or want to do something good or bad.

red flower lady
red flower lady 2012-06-13 19:41:37 -0500 Report

Actually, the nutritional value is hanging up on the wall at the main fast food places, at least where I have been. For those that don't hang it up, you simply have to ask to see it as it is kept under the counter. I do this when eating out at restaurants if the menue doesn't have the info listed. I can always check it out online before going so as to know what I want.

As to your last sentence, it falls back on self control that is sadley missing in the world today right next to morals for the most part.

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-12 20:48:37 -0500 Report

No one is saying to be part of a moral police force, but we do have predatory laws. It is legally wrong to take advantage of people who are incapable of making educated decisions about their own well being. This is why it's illegal to sell alcohol to minors. As always Joyce, you bring quality points, but i will not resign myself to believe that there is no problem, or that there shouldn't be action taken. We're too smart to end up as a society relegated to living our lives as blobs in scooters.

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-06-13 13:18:12 -0500 Report

Nick I agree but unless an adult person has a power of attorney to make decisions for them or is certifiable incompetent to make educated decisions or any decision, what can anyone do. In order for the legality to play a role, someone has to go to court to have the person declared incapable to make any kind of decision. My dad had an 8th grade education an could read, write, comprehend what he read, could add, subtract, multiply and divide without benefit of paper or pencil. He could build anything and had a photographic memory. He could also quote baseball stats with the best sports talking heads. So because he didn't graduate from school, would he fall under the auspices of being incapable of making educated decisions regarding his life particularly in what he ate? He suffered from dementia yet he was capable of speaking with a social worker to determine that he needed to be in a nursing home. He read the paperwork and signed himself in. He did this so he could leave when he wanted to do so. Unfortunately he got ill and wasn't able to leave.

You cannot say people are incapable of making educated decisions. Believe me I have encountered a lot of "educated idiots". The problem is people who are educated, uneducated and under educated do not always make informed decisions.

One of the peers we trained to work for us was a woman with several adult children. She was morbidly obese, suffered from high blood pressure and congestive heart failure. Never smoked a day in her 50 years. She was very well dressed, hair and make up was well done and well spoken a high school graduate and very intelligent. She was also computer literate by basically teaching herself. Sadly she passed away last year. She knew the foods she ate were not good for her. This woman ate more food in a day than I do in a week. We often talked to her about eating healthy. She said she knew that she wasn't eating healthy yet food comforted her after her son was shot and killed by a robber in front of their home on his 20th birthday. People are obese for all kinds of reasons. You can't blame companies whose advertisements show people enjoying all kinds of foods. They are not preying on anyone incapable of making educated, or informed decisions. It is still up to each individual to decide if they want to eat it and how much.

Caroltoo
Caroltoo 2012-06-13 15:51:08 -0500 Report

Joyce,
I would be interested in your carrying that story a generation further. How are her children doing? Are they and the grandkids also obese? It's ok for her to decide that for herself, but did the cycle break or has she created a couple more generations who cope in the same way she did by eating themselves into obesity to deal with deeply painful emotion?
Carol

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-13 14:05:37 -0500 Report

I'm generalizing. If you asked a 20 year old today what their daily nutritional requirements are, I'd bet the majority couldn't respond. Most of their parents couldn't either. Heck, I'm still unclear and I've been at this a few years. we are sadly uneducated as to what is proper nutrition.
DDT was an effective chemical in reducing mosquito populations, and thus malaria. Had it been used judicously, we'd still be using it today. However, it was not, and in the concentrations it was being used it was starting to poison livestock, water systems, and causing cancer and exposure has been linked to diabetes. Homeowners were buying the stuff and using it full strength for everything even though there were clear label warnings. Check out Rachel Carson's 1962 book "Silent Spring". The government saw this as a hazard to human health (who wouldn't) and at first restricted it's use because the usage had gotten out of hand. Of course this was fought, but the ban was finally imposed. It is still used today, but only by licensed people in certain ways.
I'm still of the opinion that soft drinks, like DDT are now being overused beyond their original intent, and are now used at levels harmful to us as a society.

And no, just to head you off, I'm not suggesting we need to be licensed to drink soda. Just saying it should be marketed and sold proportionatly to our already agreed upon nutritional standards. Do we need one whole aisle in the supermarket devoted to it?

Just Joyce
Just Joyce 2012-06-13 16:57:30 -0500 Report

Nick I absolutely don't care how much a person eats or drinks in one day. I can do nothing to stop them. As with anything people are going to over use it or use it improperly.

With all the people flushing old medications down the toilet imagine what combinations of medications are in the water we use to wash clothing, drink, prepare food, water livestock for food consumption, water vegetables and so forth.

People worry about everything causing cancer from the air we breath, the foods we eat, and some medications we take. I for one do not plan on worrying about this.

There are entire aisle in the supermarket for breads, cookies and chips, canned veggies, baking products, spices etc. It all still comes down to choice. You don't really believe foods should be sold in proportions to nutritional standards do you?

Ok so if the nutritional standard is one serving of meat, veggie and starch and it is sold in this manner, what is going to stop anyone from buying as many servings they want and eating them at one time? What is going to stop someone from buying a case of 8oz cans of soda and drinking them in 2 days? If cookies are sold based on serving size say 3-5 cookies per serving. What is going to stop me from buying 6 servings and eating them that night in front of the tv. The answer is absolutely no one. If you think any of the food companies are going to allow this think again. They make more money and the consumer saves money buying larger packages.

Suppose you worked a construction site all day and skipped lunch. At the supermarket you are only allowed to buy 1 meal of 1 serving. You know that this is not enough food for you because you skipped lunch. What are you going to do? If that happened, it would be like living in a Sci-Fi movie. People are going to start hoarding food and making a fortune selling it on the black market.

red flower lady
red flower lady 2012-06-13 20:00:50 -0500 Report

You know, that is part of the problem, skipping meals and then trying to make up for it in another one. You are hungry, but that normal size meal will fill you up if you just try it and don't qulp down the entire meal in 2 seconds so that brain and stomach can get together to say you are not hungry any more. There are those who eat large meals all the time who would have an issue with this until they allowed the mind set to work and rewire their behavior. They are so used to big meals that in their "mind" they are still hungry. To me, these are the people who are going to be upset the most on the bans, but who knows, it might actually work?

Nick1962
Nick1962 2012-06-13 18:37:05 -0500 Report

No now Joyce you're taking this to the extreme. This is about fast food, not individual supermarket items. Yes, we have whole aisles of canned veggies, the difference is (sodium content aside) they actually have some nutritional value and are part of your daily recommended foods. Soda is not.
Nothing is going to stop you from eating a 1 pound hamburger, or drinking a 32 ounce coke. Nor is anyone restricting you from doing so. This is my point.
If you want 32 ounces of Coke, by all means buy 4 8 oz. cans. If you want a full pound hamburger at McDonalds, buy 4 quarter pounders. I don't care.
We, as a country have completely lost our minds as to what a "portion size" is. We have developed nutritional standards and it's time food be sold according to them.
End yes, i have worked on a construction site. There is no "skip lunch" on one, and most guys eat very reasonably.

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