Burn out

By sasypphire Latest Reply 2012-05-30 12:34:51 -0500
Started 2012-04-05 00:52:16 -0500

I find that I get burn out all. I don't care about test my sugar. I want to be normal. Im not just a diabetic i also have a thyroid problem and kidney issues. I'm the only one in my whole family with type 1 diabetes. And I have always been healthy. I recently gotten back on track. But when you feel like you can't take anymore what do you do not to fall out the wagon?

154 replies

4carrin 2012-04-26 15:42:39 -0500 Report

sasypphire you sound so my like my 19yr old daughter. she too has thyroid problems,type1 since age 4 and on pump,and has kidney disease.She is refusing to take meds,do sugars ect.How do i help her?

4carrin 2012-04-26 15:39:28 -0500 Report

you sound so much like my daughter. she too is type 1, the only person in the family w diabetes,thyroid problem,and kidney disease too. She is currently going thru what i think is diabetic burnout. refusing to take care of herself ,wont take her meds,or do her sugars.I want so much to help and protect her. Just feeling helpless.

roshy 2012-04-27 08:14:11 -0500 Report

young adulthood is such a complex stage in a young diabetics life. its incredably tough at times to keep on top of your management. It causes alot of stress, frustration and anxiety in the family iswell so i feel for you because as a mother there is not much you can do; you cant make her test her sugars or take her meds when shes 19 years of age so in a way all you can do is watch helplessly. When i was at that age is caused countless arguments between me and my parents because they knew and i knew that i should of been taking care of my diabetes better.

Iim not sure if your daughter is in college or working but i think social support groups provide alot of emotional strenght at that age. If theres a counsellor in your area i think this might help iswell. Or maybe a diabetes nurse. I feel if your daughter had somewhere where she could go and sound off about her feelings and emotions would really help. Someone who was neutral (not a family member or doctor) and not going to judgemental but just to listen.

I can offer some personal advice i wish someone offered my parents when i was going through my diabetes deviant stage.. . . .

when you see her maybe eating something she shouldnt be dont get angry and expel your frustration onto her (i know its hard) its discouraging and doesnt offer anything constructive. i think just calmly explain why your upset with her behavour and how it makes you feel. and always tell her that youll be there for her if or when she ever needs you, she most likely already knows this but to be reminded every now and again is very comforting.

although theres many things she may be doing wrong try and highlight the things shes doing right. this is really based on the positive reinforcement concept. good encouragment and support will make her realise that she is doing many things right in her life and help her come to understanding that she can right the things she is doing wrong over time.

I wish you the very best and hope your daughter finds the strength she needs to take care of herself.

kdroberts 2012-04-09 14:54:42 -0500 Report

Wow, there's a lot of comlete hogwash in this discussion. A couple of things stand out though. A lot of people don't understand the differences between the types and the assumption by some that type 1 is worse than type 2.

Arguably you could say that type 1 is way easier than type 2 as you have insulin to control accidental high blood sugar and have the option of picking what you eat and dozing based on that. Most type 2s don't have that option. You pick your food based on how much it will raise your blood sugar and if you test and you're high, there is not a lot you can do to guarantee it will go down.

Fighting over which is worse is like fighting over if its worse to lose an arm or a leg. Either way, you are missing a limb.

If you are truely interested in burnout associated with diabetes there is a great book called Diabetes Burnout which goes into the psychology behind burnout, how to deal with it and how to avoid it. It might also be helpful to just learn some real facts about diabetes and not outdated stereotypes.

roshy 2012-04-20 09:26:50 -0500 Report

ahh the wise words from yoda again!!!! if you were ever to write a book on diabetes id defo give it a read. . . . no bs, just hard facts!!! god they should give you a thrown and a crown!!! hope your keeping well kd!!

GabbyPA 2012-04-11 10:16:32 -0500 Report

Thank you KD for your input on this messy discussion. It has gotten so far off from the original post question that it is not even recognizable.

Nana_anna 2012-04-09 14:44:40 -0500 Report

I have those days more often enough. I look at it this way. It's one day that I can beat! I can get past this! I can fail and just dig in, but over all its not worth the pain in the future. What we do now will eventually come back to bit us! I am caustious about what I eat. I can't give in. No matter how temtping it is. You can do it! Stay strong!

Set apart
Set apart 2012-04-09 06:42:15 -0500 Report

I am not sure what falling off the wagon may mean to us! I've had a few incidences where I thought I would try the chili chips, eat a pop tart, not so good! With D I find myself to be lucky because it makes me responsible for my health and how I will feel, it's hard, not just hard it's exhausting, but it has to be about YOU! Good luck to you!

TsalagiLenape 2012-04-09 06:21:20 -0500 Report

Hi sasypphire, I understand you dont want Type 2 people replying to this yet I will share this one time ok? I may end up being a Type 1 one day, so learning not just about Type 2 but Type 1 is important. I am not discounting the severity or seriousness of Type 1. Yet I need to know learn, just in case, I transition over to Type 1. Yes I understand how tiring it is about keeping tract, doing the sugar tests, and etc. You can be normal to a point just like me. Yet we are more aware, our minds are heightened by what we deal with. Thus it makes us one step ahead of the normal. Which I think is a good way to think. Its Positive and you never know you may save the life of someone you care by your knowledge, heightened sensitivities, and insight of the work. So I hope this inspires you to stay focused, improve your inner strength, and make you realize you are an inspiration to others in one way or another. Not meant to offend. Have a great day!:)

MAYS 2012-04-07 11:08:43 -0500 Report

Define "normal" after doing so, take a look around you and "try" to fit everyone that you see into the "normal" category, you can't!

As diabetics we need to take attitude that we are "special!"

We have special needs that we have to take care of, we have tomonitor our life conditions, we have to take control of ourselves, it may be time consuming and frustrating at times but we must do it because "we" are "special!"

So whenever you can't take it anymore, remember this about yourself, "You are Sweet because of all of the Sugar that your body contains," and because of this, "You are Special" thereby requiring "Special Care!"

How else can you look at it?
Now, do you still really want to be "normal?"


kaiya2465 2012-04-07 11:18:18 -0500 Report

We also need to remember we are not any better or worse of a person because of what type of D category we are in!!!!! We are fighting to stay as healthy as we can…And learn from each other!!!!

elaines 2012-04-07 10:59:13 -0500 Report

Hello. I don't know if this will help but you are normal you just have diabetes. There are so many other diseases you can have that can be much worse. Don't get me wrong, diabetes stinks but it is manageable. I have had diabetes for 24 years and have just about every complication there is and I am now only 43. I lost one eye and am legally blind in the other, I was on dialysis for 1 1/2 years until getting a kidney from my sister, I had a pancreas transplant, suffered 7 strokes, thankfully with no damage or weakness and I have severe neuropathy. Unless you want to suffer like I do please take care of yourself. Let my message be your motivation. I have wanted to give up so many times and just stop all meds and see what happens but that is being selfish. It is not fair to have my family watch me suffer. I try to dwell on the positive things in life and do things I enjoy. Things can always be worse. We are all dealt with issues in life that make us the person we are. How we choose to deal with them effects the rest of your life. Talking about it on hear helps but if you find it just gets too much for you seek counseling before you fall too deep. Find a hobby or something you like to do and find pleasure in it. Remember all the good things you have and maybe the bad will just be a little easier to deal with. I went through many years of not taking care of myself. Sugars so high my meter would not read it meaning it was over 650. But I was still functioning like I am right now so I figured I was ok. I didn't always take my insulin, 6 shots a day. Spent many nights in the ER due to DKA. I put my parents and family through much unneeded stress including having to be rushed from one ER to another by ambulance only because the weather was too bad for life flight. I learned much too late the importance of just doing it and now I am suffering. I hope you will realize that at least this is a disease you can manage and live a normal life. It is all up to you and how important your life is to you. There are so many other diseases out there that don't give us that choice. So choose life and take care of yourself and remember, you are special and worth it. Take care and good luck. Have a good day.

Denisency213 2012-04-07 10:32:00 -0500 Report

I was not going to post on this thread because of the way it was going , but as I read it something lit a fire sasypphire you said yesterday it was the " life style" of type 2 that caused it well your misinformed there is a lot more to it yes life style but genetics and race are among other factors for me I had gestational diabetes and after my second child I became a type 2 . so I ASK you should I not had my my children I knew I would develop diabetes for second child . it's like you blame type 2 for the disease. would you tell someone it was your life style that contributed to your breast cancer? I feel your pain when you say you feel burned out. I feel burn too ! please don't take what I say negatively.

joey71 2012-04-09 12:31:55 -0500 Report

I too had gestational diabetes with both pregnancies and then got type 2 a year after my youngest child was born…no one else in my family had it until my cousin was also recently diagnosed. Had no idea I would get it and my diet is good…

Type1Lou 2012-04-06 13:01:17 -0500 Report

Dear sasypphire, Wishing that we didn't have diabetes will not make it so. I developed my Type 1 at age 27 and have now lived longer with it than without. My motivation for taking care of myself lies not only in fending off those complications (blindness, kidney failure etc) but in not burdening those who love me with emergencies like severe hypoglycemic episodes or worse. If you care about your life and the quality of your life and the lives of those who love you, it is motivation enough. I have not always taken the best care of myself and have some neuropathy and the beginning of retinopathy to deal with now, as well as thyroid issues (not uncommon in us diabetics). Diabetes, for us is a fact of life and in order to properly manage it we need to accept it and make the right choices. Wishing you the strength to make the right choices for a long and happy life.

sasypphire 2012-04-06 13:04:49 -0500 Report

The whole question was basically what do you do when you can't those reasons to stay healthy. How do you put life in prospective when you cant the day to day hassles that diabetes puts in your way.

KellyJo76 2012-04-11 14:58:46 -0500 Report

Sasypphire, thank you for posting… you don't know how many times I have felt the way you are feeling. I go through "burn out" often… it's not because I'm not motivated to stay healthy, most of the time its because life just gets in the way… This disease is hard and can be so draining on us emotioanlly. For me… I did find that book " Diabetes Burnout" helpful in making me understand why I feel the way I do, but I have yet to find a way to stop it from happening.

Type1Lou 2012-04-06 13:41:54 -0500 Report

I'm sensing a great deal of anger and frustration in your reply. If you are unable to get beyond that, it will only sabotage your efforts to manage your condition. Emotions like anger can cause spikes in BG. DietCherry suggested that you might need to seek some outside help to help you accept your diabetes and deal with it. I second that opinion. There is no one magic solution for all of us. I've explained what my motivation is, but then, I've accepted the fact that I have diabetes (I may not necessarily like it but I live with it and it is up to me to make the right choices.) Life is a series of choices and not making a choice is, in fact, a choice. In December, I was diagnosed with depression and with the help of a psychiatrist and some meds, I'm now dealing with my depression and the quality of my life has improved. Please, for your own good, seek help.

jigsaw 2012-04-06 20:03:29 -0500 Report

I think you show a great deal of insight and understanding! I sincerely hope sasypphire can benefit. It seems that she has plenty to live for. I hope she comes around to appreciating the value of her life and preserving the health that she has!

Type1Lou 2012-04-07 09:12:07 -0500 Report

Thank you for your kind words of support. We can only offer sasypphire our suggestions and support. Whether she CHOOSES to accept it is entirely up to her.

dietcherry 2012-04-06 11:59:52 -0500 Report

Hello sasypphire I have no words of wisdom for you but I do have a suggestion: ask yourself how precious life is to you. How precious is YOUR life to you. If your answer is "priceless" then that should be all the motivation you need to take good care of yourself.
If your answer falls short of that then your negative feelings about having D are seriously interfering with your ability to care enough about controlling this disease.

You may want to seek help from a medical professional. The daily grind of a chronic condition can take its toll on our mental and physical health. I wish you much love and luck.

Old-n-Grey-n-Wiser 2012-04-06 12:34:12 -0500 Report

Be careful, that Miss Piggy is flying around in this thread

dietcherry 2012-04-06 12:50:52 -0500 Report

Too much arguing for me…Im outta here.

sasypphire 2012-04-06 12:54:34 -0500 Report

I'm getting tired of it too but I keep getting the notices. If you know how to block people I would love to know who to.

jayabee52 2012-04-06 13:09:40 -0500 Report

You cannot block people from commenting on this post, but you can go to the top just under the original posting and click the "stop tracking" link next to the red flag. You'll not see any further replies to this discussion. It would be the only way one could bypass the upset feelings here. It would be a shame to not follow a discussion one started, but I can see it for the sake of one's own emotional health.

sasypphire 2012-04-06 13:11:50 -0500 Report

I just wished that since I posted it under type 1 that the type 2 people would back off it was not a question for them. I was not interested I their input.

Anonymous 2012-04-06 15:13:23 -0500 Report

"I am not interested in their (type 2) input" is one of the most judgemental statements that I have ever heard on this site. You have no use for 20% of the population of the world because of a Dx? Wow!

Anonymous 2012-04-07 16:48:06 -0500 Report

She has a right to want to hear from members in the same situation as herself. There is a difference between the two. She isn't wanting a type 2 who eventually had to use insulin, but a type 1 who had no choice but to do insulin and who was diagnosed as a child and can't eat or not eat without insulin. What do they do to battle burn out. She should have made that clear in here discussion post. She should have not been so rude about it in trying to make that clear. What she is saying for type 2 in a round about way, is your, (type 2's), fat and lazy and due to that you develpoed diabetes, now get active and loose weight and it'll will go way! For the most part she is right, which is why doctors tell you to do just that, but, that doesn't diminish it. Doesn't take away that if ignored or not followed properly, then the same issues will affect us. Especially those who have had it for awhile, over time it's still going to break down the body.

I think she is angry that a child gets it and has to have insulin to live, but others know that eating the way they do, or gainning the weight, not exercising, etc is going to cause health problems/diseases and continuing this pattern is like saying I don't care. Our bodies can only take so much before it talks back to us!! I think if most of us really took a look at our life patterns and were honest, then we could see how our choices contributed to type 2. It's just easier to not admit it so as not to fill like we played a part in it's development. I still don't agree with her attacks on type 2's and lack of compassion in voicing her opinions, but I get what she is trying to say.

Her outright hatred for type 2 people makes me wonder if she has/had someone in her life that was one and can't handle it? I'll also chaulk it up to her young age and lack of life experience along with upbringing as to the way she talks. I sincerely hope that she gets the chip off her shoulder and has a good life.

Anonymous 2012-04-07 18:50:14 -0500 Report

I understand and empathize with where she is coming from and am sorry she has type 1. That's not the issue here. I do not accept nor believe that anyone has the right to spew verbal vitriol across others on the site because they are angry about their own situation.

Anonymous 2012-04-07 23:13:30 -0500 Report

That's what makes it an opinion! However, you have the right not to read the replies or to participate in the discussions. She hasn't accepted her situation and is very angry and lashing out. Those of us who are adults should be able to see it for what it is. Not saying she couldn't have put her feelings into a more delicate choice of words so as to not offend or bring home a sensitive subject!

By the way, vitriol is certainly an unusual choice of word. Do you use it alot? I know the meaning, but bet alot of members here had to look it up.

Anonymous 2012-04-07 23:56:36 -0500 Report

Did anyone ask you not to? I don't believe so! But you don't want her to state her opinions. What I said is basically, if you don't like her replies, then don't participate in them. There are plenty of other discussions to participate in.

Anonymous 2012-04-08 02:00:36 -0500 Report

She is welcome to state her opinions … that she is not is your assumption, not my statement. You are trying make an argument where there is none. I will continue reading and commenting where I wish, but I will not continue to waste time with you. Bye.

Anonymous 2012-04-08 15:15:22 -0500 Report

You are misunderstanding me, not trying to fight with you!. I was refering to your post above "I am not interested in their (type 2) input" to say we don't have to like it, but it is her right. Then you replied "I do not accept nor believe that anyone has the right to spew verbal vitriol across others on the site because they are angry about their own situation. You just said you didn't think she has the right to speak her mind, NOT ME! I think your intent was clear.

I AGREE she should have been nicer in explaing she would rather not deal with type 2's as she is a type 1 and only wants input from them. When she made it clear (rudely) how she felt, people being upset kept the discussion going which just kept her rude stabs comming. I think if it would have been left alone after her first attemp to explain her feelings for type 2 then all would have not been offended. When some people started the negative replies (name calling), that made them no better then her.

I do hope you do continue to read and reply as that is what the site is for. Just don't expect it to always be sunshine and flowers when visiting, people are not always that way so neither are their words.

jayabee52 2012-04-06 13:34:34 -0500 Report

Unfortunately sasy, that's not the way it works here. It never has worked that way and I have been here about 3.5 yrs. The categories which one posts are for folks who want to do a search of the site for topics, in this case "type 1".

I am type 2 and I check out ALL the new postings no matter if I have a particular interest in that subject or not. (Example: insulin pumps — even though I have gotten off insulin I still read about insulin pumps with interest.) Sometimes I garner some really great information from the discussions I thought that for me would be duds.

I have great friendships with folks who are type 1. I feel that there is more uniting us than dividing us.

And if I said something which might be motivating to you "to get back on your horse" and ride the bronco well, you would ignore me, just because I am a type 2?

If so, I am sorry for you. The limiting attitude regarding types of diabetes is not useful for someone who intends to go into the field of nursing.

Please rethink your attitude toward those of different types of diabetes.

(still waiting for you to tell us the "facts" to which you repeatedly refer. I've seen many OPINIONS from you but it seems you're quite short on facts. )

sasypphire 2012-04-06 13:39:18 -0500 Report

Now see my personal point view has nothing to do with my professional. I don't care for type type2 personally but but if you were In my care I would take just as good care of you as I would a type 1.

jayabee52 2012-04-06 13:44:08 -0500 Report

you are still not giving us your so called "facts" to which you repeatedly referred.

And with an attitude like that about not caring for T2s personally, as my wise therapist once said: "Feelings Leak!"

DeanaG 2012-04-06 13:26:22 -0500 Report

Type 2s suffer from burn out also.
I would share with you what I do to combat it, but since you aren't interested in our input and want us to back off I won't.

Type1Lou 2012-04-06 15:14:06 -0500 Report

I beg to differ…and who are you to judge what others are dealing with and how they deal with it? YOU asked for OUR help…and then you dis people because they're not the same as YOU???? Girl, you've got some growing up to do!

DeanaG 2012-04-06 13:55:14 -0500 Report

I know that there is a difference in type 1 and type 2 in how the body works. I didn't say anything about when you got the disease.
What I ask is what is the difference in type 1 burn out and type 2 burn out?
Obviously anything that a type 2 says to you will be met with prejudice in your opinions.

sasypphire 2012-04-06 14:00:56 -0500 Report

Well with In the care of the diabetes it is harder for type 1. It is different I was more or less trying to ask how others get back into doing the sugar testing counting the carbs giving the shots when that is the last thing they want to think about as a child or young adult.

jigsaw 2012-04-07 07:33:16 -0500 Report

Could you explain the emotional aspects of a type II, when it comes to emotional burn out? You seem to have an opinion about type II being different as far as burn out is concerned, yet you are a type I. What is the info source for your opinion?

jayabee52 2012-04-06 13:49:30 -0500 Report

The EMOTIONS behind each condition are STILL THE SAME! Unless you see type 1s as human beings and type 2s as some kind of non human invaders.

sasypphire 2012-04-06 13:52:31 -0500 Report

Ha ha not at all. When I asked the question it was geared toward those with type one because they have to think more about what they do on a daily bases then most. Now I said most type 2.

DeanaG 2012-04-06 14:05:57 -0500 Report

WRONG!!!! There is that uninformed prejudice again.

I have to think about everything that crosses my lips and everything I do in regards to how it will effect my diabetes.

kaiya2465 2012-04-06 14:11:48 -0500 Report

DeanaG: I agree with you on that, Pre-D has to do the same or chance becoming full-blown D…True Statement Thank You!!!!!

dietcherry 2012-04-06 13:03:04 -0500 Report

Well when you start a Discussion its open to all members; you know thats only fair. You can block whomever you want from posting on your profile but I dont think thats what you meant ?? I already flamed with someone this week so Im going to leave quietly now.

DeanaG 2012-04-06 09:28:57 -0500 Report

In my opinion you seriously need to take a Diabetes education course.
Neither "type" of Diabetes can be "gotten rid of". There are degrees of control, some need meds, others can control it with food control and exercise.
Once a Diabetic always a Diabetic.
Type 2 Diabetes is not choice!! I am positive that everyone with Type 2 did not choose it.
It is ignorant uninformed statements like yours that contribute to the misconceptions regarding Type 2 Diabetes.
We are all Diabetics or PWDS, regardless of type, we are all in a fight for our lives.

sasypphire 2012-04-06 10:22:28 -0500 Report

Your a type 2 right. Of course you would. Say that. There is a reason I put my comment a type 1. I never meant it for the type 2 diabetics to comment on it. Seriously people you all think I'm dumb. No look at the damn facts that I have given and look at reality of people who have the different types. Yes there are the exception. But you can't complain when you are the people who knew that your lifestyle was going to get you sick. Now as for level of control. Type 2 diabetics have it so much easier then type 1.

DeanaG 2012-04-06 12:13:52 -0500 Report

I haven't seen any Facts that you have given.
I refuse to argue with you on your uninformed opinion. This site is for supporting and helping each other!
The point I was making that you totally ignored was that we are all dealing with the same disease , no matter the "type".
Why make comments blaming people for having a disease??
Why not instead join together sharing information to help each other??

marla50 2012-04-06 01:00:49 -0500 Report

You fall off the wagon! A day or two is not going to kill you!! A month a year, then we got problems! Sasypphire,if u have type one,u have those "other problems". We are not normal,we are special!! What does your family having diabetes have to do with you? You are one of the chosen ones! You are special! Be careful and good luck!

red flower lady
red flower lady 2012-04-05 22:36:55 -0500 Report

Welcome to the site. It is easy to feel burned out, but think of the alternative to not taking the shots and doing all the rest that go along with it. I also am a type 1 and have been since a kid. We all falter a little, but then get back on the plan. I read a few replies, and have to say that no, not all type 2 brought it on themselves. I think the wording is the problem, how they got type 2 doesn't lessen the complications that quite a few members here suffer from. There are alot of type 1 who live an unhealthy life style before being diagnosed. We just all need to do our best to get in as good a shape as possible and hope to keep our diabetes under control:)

sasypphire 2012-04-05 22:43:26 -0500 Report

And with that how do you talk yourself Into getting back on the wagon when your the only one in your family that has to deal with it and you don't have any friend that have it either. You are basically all alone. I ask because I am going to be a camp leader and I have been asked to cover this topic since I have gone through burn out time and time again. And need other point of views. Religion is no a strong topic for me since I don't believe in a heaven or hell. And I'm luckily to have a good support with my diabetic community in my area.

kaiya2465 2012-04-05 22:53:11 -0500 Report

sasy­pphi­re:: I am alone family wise anyways, I have this site & friends on here that have kept me going…It's not easy when any person feels alone, but you have to think of the alternative. You are lucky to have a D community You have way more support than I could ever imagine where I am from. Chin up, get back to what you know is right for you…

sasypphire 2012-04-05 22:58:15 -0500 Report

Well I was diagnose when I was 8 and they have support groups out here where I live. I am now 19 going to be 20 shortly. And have grown up with to be a young leader in my group. I have done my research on all the areas of diabetes. Like did you know there are actually 3 different types of diabetes. And I am now working on my RN degree. So I do know what I'm talking about.

kaiya2465 2012-04-05 23:07:28 -0500 Report

No comment on the 3rd or what they are now concidering the 3rd. What needs to be done by insur. companies though is to work on the prevention measures for the Pre-D's that are trying not to become full blown D's.

sasypphire 2012-04-05 23:36:44 -0500 Report

Type 1 I juvenile diabetes which mean that usually that kids get it. And the the pancreas dose not produce any insulin at all. It's basically dead. Type 2 is adult onset diabetes. Where the pancreas produces some insulin. Now if the pancreas makes the right type of insulin or enough for the body is the problem. That is why most type 2 can control their diabetes with diet and exercise. And the third kind is gestational diabetes which is what pregnant women get. And once they have the child they no longer have diabetes.

Anonymous 2012-04-09 12:45:25 -0500 Report

Wrong, i got full blown type 2 after my 2nd child…excersized and ate a sp. diet whole way through…gained 20 pounds and still go it…

Old-n-Grey-n-Wiser 2012-04-07 12:36:45 -0500 Report

Seeing you feel the need to multi post this I will copy and paste so everyone sees my feelings.

Old-­n-Gr­ey-n­-Wis­er Today at 12:24 2 Likes I like this I don't like this Report as inappropriate I learned very much more from what you want to refer as "the Melissa Incident" then someone like you will ever realize. I also know that suit of shining armor you like to refer to is just a bunch of rusty tin cans. You are one of ones here guilty of jumping into every thread adding your comment without digesting what the poster is looking for. Your pompous attitude is a turn off to many. Seeing that Melissa is still a member you would be wise to leave her out of any post, she doesn't need to relive what a banned poster put her through. She is one of my valued friends, not just a name on a list, and so all know you are blocked from that list since you chose to work with her stalker. We can go on and duel with words, where you stand no chance of coming out on top, or do what I have done with you and ignore me and what I post.

Melissa, if you should happen to come across this post my heart felt apology for you being drawn into this post and any bad memories it might cause.