Eating Healthy & Low Carbohydrate:

By Caroltoo Latest Reply 2012-03-25 11:46:29 -0500
Started 2012-03-15 18:56:44 -0500

Paleo style eating focuses on natural foods (as opposed to processed foods) that might have been available to our ancestors. Let's call it the Paleo Style Eating because most of us don't like the word "diet," even though a diet is just what you eat in the course of a day.

Here is a handy list of the "Paleo Foods" and the "Foods to limit, avoid". If you go to the link, you will find this in a nice, printable form. For those of you who like to read the research background, page 2 also has a list of references that cover how Paleo eating relates to immune system to cardiovascular disease.

lean meat (beef, poultry, pork)
unsalted nuts and seeds
non-starchy vegetables
organ meets
game meat

Foods to avoid or limit:
Dairy foods (butter, cheese, milk, yogurt, etc.)
Grains (barley, corn, oats, rice, wheat, etc.)
Legumes (all beans, soybean products, lentils, etc.)
Starchy vegetables (potatoes)
Salty foods (processed meats, condiments, etc.)
Sugary soft drinks
High sugar fruits, dried fruit, all fruit juices
Fatty meats (bacon, lamb chops, chicken thighs, wings, and legs, etc.)

137 replies

kaiya2465 2012-03-23 19:45:13 -0500 Report

Very interesting post. I am really giving a look over on foods that I choose to eat more now than before.

Gambling 2012-03-24 16:39:37 -0500 Report

I have been trying ""Lightlife" brand of vegetarian meat such as bacon, sausage ground beef all are made with soy protein..

Caroltoo 2012-03-24 16:43:12 -0500 Report

James has some interesting insight on how soy may affect testosterone production. You might want to talk with him, but, generally, all things in moderation works.

Caroltoo 2012-03-24 16:48:33 -0500 Report

Jayabee52 is James. Try a note on his profile. If not, find one of his discussions and pop the question in there.

Caroltoo 2012-03-23 19:54:57 -0500 Report

Since you aren't too fond of meat sources of protein, why don't you talk with annalease and see if she can give you an idea of what she uses as her protein sources. She is vegan, if I recall the correct term, as I'm still a little lost with all the varities of meatfree eating. I'll never be meatfree, so I haven't paid as much attention to the terms as I probably should have.

GinnyWho 2012-03-23 13:53:02 -0500 Report

I guess I don't understand why grains, legumes, potatoes, and fruits are off this diet if you are eating what is available naturally. I do understand (avoiding or limiting) those foods if you are looking to lower blood sugar or are watching the glycemic index.

Caroltoo 2012-03-23 15:17:42 -0500 Report

The history that Nick and I were discussing at the beginning of this thread should answer your question. Basically, it relates to what was available in the Paleolithic period, but see below for more information.

The G Index is great for helping guide us towards the lower impact carbohydrates, isn't it?

jayabee52 2012-03-23 14:13:06 -0500 Report

Howdy Ginny

If you read earlier replies (lower down) you'll see where the term "paleo diet" came from and why those food items are not on it. It was Nick who gave us the background for the paleo diet. Scroll down and get a bit of information on this subject look for his responses starting on Mar 16 & 17.

Jan8 2012-03-20 08:19:09 -0500 Report

I was told by my diabertic nurse practitioner to eat 2 greek youguts per day.hmmm..

GinnyWho 2012-03-23 13:55:00 -0500 Report

Greek yogurt has an increased amount of protein helping you fill more and possibly helping to keep blood sugar levels lower. Some greek yogurts have more sugar than my low carb yogurt, but maybe it levels off with the added protein.

Jan8 2012-03-24 06:47:23 -0500 Report

You're right Ginny. I was told to eat this esp. with a salad to increase protein. (Even though I put diff. kinds of beans and walnuts in them)

Caroltoo 2012-03-20 09:25:36 -0500 Report

What can I say, besides she is definitely not following this diet! Actually, Jan, this is not a common diet, which is one of the reasons I've found it interestng that Nick, Al, James, and I have, pretty much on our own, ended up eating this way. We all have our adaptations and wouldn't pass as a purist. I had a Greek yoguert last night last night as a snack, but that was 1 in the last month, not two a day.

You did say you are trying to gain weight and that would be an extra 560 calories according to my container so that could be why she suggested it and why I would avoid it. Like we have been saying … these are all ideas to consider and what works for each of us is as individual as we are. Enjoy your yogurt and I hope you find you can gain some weight if that is what you want.

jlively1 2012-03-19 11:10:15 -0500 Report

I can't get behind avoiding dairy products. I think cheese (non-processed) is good for you; at least me. However, I know that too much of it can be a bad thing.

Nick1962 2012-03-19 11:53:58 -0500 Report

Being from the dairy state, that was a killer for me too. However since getting "D" I've read several papers that state humans are the only species that continue to consume dairy after birth (and that of other species too), and we really weren't designed to. Dairy for every species is just a means to get nutrition until we can feed ourselves. I haven't completely quit dairy (cheese primarily) because it is a good source of protein, however I have cut down considerably and noticed a lot less digestive issues.

Caroltoo 2012-03-19 12:27:45 -0500 Report

I, too, have considerably reduced mine (and have also reduced my gastric symptoms), but have not given up cheese. It is a good source of protein and one of my favorite snacks.

jlively1 2012-03-19 12:22:53 -0500 Report

I just think that everyone's body is different. Some people can handle dairy while others cannot.

Nick1962 2012-03-19 13:32:30 -0500 Report

Oh I agree, I just thought it was an interesting tidbit. Like Carol says below also, what was ok for me just a few years ago, may not be so next year.

Caroltoo 2012-03-19 12:30:18 -0500 Report

We are all different … that's why we put out so many different ideas abouts diets and food consumption. Take the ideas that are helpful to you and fit where you are today. Some of the others may be good for you in the future. Most of us have noticed our needs change and we must adapt to continue to stay healthy.

Young1s 2012-03-17 10:54:21 -0500 Report

Wow! Just read the replies below. You all are so lucky to be in the positions of knowing exactly what works for you. I'm still early in this journey but I plan to be just as comfortable and confident in my eating routine someday. It's like you said Carol, taking bits and pieces from all of it to find what works for our individual system. Thanks for the continued inspiration…I'm wanna be just like all of you when I grow up. :)

On a side note, it figures that the dark meats, which are the tastier portions, are on the avoid or limit list. Luckily I cook mostly breasts but I do have a few yummy thigh, wing and leg recipes that I like to frequent. And speaking of the legs, I don't really see how they're considered fatty. Can someone enlighten me on that one?

Nick1962 2012-03-18 13:21:55 -0500 Report

Legs and thighs contain more fat in the meat cellular struture itself, breasts less. But it isn't by much (breasts about 6 grams fat per 4 ounces, thighs anout 11 grams fat per 4 ounces). Something to do with the activity that part of the body recieves to keep the cell structure pliable.

Nick1962 2012-03-18 13:22:55 -0500 Report

And no, you don't want to be just like me when you grow up. You'd look terrible with a beard!

Young1s 2012-03-18 14:26:00 -0500 Report

Thanks for the explanation and I agree, I'd look funny with a beard. Although I do know what that would be like. I look a lot like my older brother and he has a fuzzy beard like Tom's.

jayabee52 2012-03-23 16:44:14 -0500 Report

well if you hired out to circus you wouldn't need (or want) to shave it. LoL!

But seriously, my Jem had shaved her little white hairs when a girl (so she said) and they grew in thicker and blacker until she had to shave every other day or so. One of her girlfriends urged her to shave it. She was sorry that she did.

Young1s 2012-03-23 17:14:49 -0500 Report

I guess all little girls grow up hearing that because I was told the same thing. Seems to be having the opposite effect on my legs though. The more I shave, the less it grows back. Not mad at that at all.

Caroltoo 2012-03-23 17:18:23 -0500 Report

I used to think that also until I realized it was actually a manifestation of ALL hair on my body thinning. In other words, what is thinning the hair on our head is also thinning the hair on our legs and underarms and arms and …

In view of that, it is not such a good thing.

jigsaw 2012-03-24 05:17:34 -0500 Report

Not sure about that. My chest is as hairy as it ever was, but the hair on my head has been thinning for years ! I wish it was the other way around.
I would definitely prefer a hairy head to a hairy chest !
On the other hand, I guess most women are lucky in that sense. Who would want to see a bunch of hairy chested, bald headed women running around !

Caroltoo 2012-03-24 12:14:17 -0500 Report

Then you have male pattern baldness going on, not the kind of diabetes induced hair thinning that Pat and I have. MPD is on your head, not your chest. Personally, never grew any there to begin with. Like your gorilla comment though.

jigsaw 2012-03-24 15:20:17 -0500 Report

I am well aware of the whats and whys going on upon my head ! I would still prefer it to be taking place on my chest instead of my head. Makes no difference to me if it's a different cause then your hair problem.

Caroltoo 2012-03-24 15:30:22 -0500 Report

Ah, can only agree with you!!! I want my hair back too. It used to be so thick and long … makes me sad to think of it.

Young1s 2012-03-24 08:51:04 -0500 Report

Some women look great bald, Al. You just have to have the right head for it though. But I will agree about the hairy chest…not something I want to see on any woman.

jayabee52 2012-03-24 16:30:47 -0500 Report

reminds me Young1 of the quip "God made only SO MANY perfect heads —— the rest he covered with hair" LoL!

Caroltoo 2012-03-24 16:38:21 -0500 Report

James, that reminds me of one Wayne always quotes: God is good, God is fair, to some he gave brains, to others hair. Which I find particularly ironic as my thickly white haired sweetie of 36 years sits here smiling at me from the haze of his Alzheimer's. Hum…

Young1s 2012-03-25 09:53:45 -0500 Report

Does my thinning hair mean I'm getting smarter? Oh boy…that wouldn't be a fair trade off at all. :)

jayabee52 2012-03-25 11:22:07 -0500 Report

young1, my uncle (who was a bald man at 30) said "those who are bald in front are thinkers, and those who are bald in the back are sexy, Those who are bald both front and back just think they're sexy." That from a man who fathered 8 children from the same lady!

jigsaw 2012-03-24 09:26:31 -0500 Report

Agreed, I have seen some very beautiful women that look great with shaved heads. Of course some guys look good bald as well. As far as hairy chests are concerned, there is only one female biped that I saw that looked natural with a hairy chest, and she was a gorilla.

jayabee52 2012-03-23 15:25:24 -0500 Report

A family friend (also has diabetes) has a beard he bleaches for christmas time and bills himself as "all natural santa" (and has the waistline to back it up)

jayabee52 2012-03-17 11:58:26 -0500 Report

I used to buy boneless, skinless chicken thighs to grill on my Geo Foreman, and I found them to be very greasy, much more than boneless skinless Chicken breasts. I don't know the exact reason for that, but I noted it and have avoided those B/S thigh portions recently. They really no longer appealed to me.

Young1s 2012-03-17 12:20:18 -0500 Report

I hear you about the thighs. I buy them boneless too but still end up cutting away a lot of fat from them. My question wad pertaining to the chicken legs and what makes them considered to be fatty. Is it just the skin because there is barely any fat near the bone. I've tried baking legs with out the skin but of course the meat just fell right off the bone. So unless that's the plan, you almost have to cook it with the skin.

jayabee52 2012-03-17 12:31:28 -0500 Report

as I recall I didn't see much in the way of fat on those thighs. That is why I was surprised with all of the grease coming out of them.

dubyadd 2012-03-15 23:00:38 -0500 Report

I don't see any fruits in here? The berry line, blue, black, rasp and straw, are all low cal, low carb and full of vitamins and antioxidants. Why were they excluded? They were being eaten by our early ancestors too.

Caroltoo 2012-03-16 00:35:28 -0500 Report

Looks like an omission on the chart to me, cause the article talks about eating "what our ancestors could find in the wild" and berries were certainly a big part of that. Also berry seeds are a great source of the fiber that others might get from whole grains.

The chart specifically speaks to avoiding high sugar fruit, and all fruit juice, but didn't pick up the counterpart of low sugar fruits being ok.

However, on page 2 of the article (see link) it does talk about fruit and there is also fruit in the picture of the recommeneded low carb items. So … looks like an oops on the chart, but they are definitely included in the diet and the article.

Nick1962 2012-03-16 10:42:47 -0500 Report

Nope, fruit was not an oversight. Bear in mind we’re talking about the Paleolithic era – 10,000 to 2.6 million years ago, and even that term had only been coined first in 1865 by archeologist John Lubbock. Technically, most fruit as we know it didn’t even exist at the time, and depending on where you are geographically, many fruits did not come into widespread existence until the 16th century when people started roaming the globe. Bananas for example are native to Southeast Asia, and didn’t see the western world until about 340BC. Here’s some interesting history
Also, much of what was “fruit bearing” was actually poisonous as well, with some strains having the poison bred out over time.
For us, apples, cherries, pears, oranges, lemons, limes….all were introduced to North America by European settlers - making the phrase “American as apple pie” kind of a misnomer.
The three main native North American fruit crops are cranberries, American grapes, and blueberries. Lesser native fruits include the American May apple, beach plum, saw palmetto, pawpaw, and the huge scuppernong grape.

Nick1962 2012-03-16 15:57:03 -0500 Report

It is something our society has lost sight of. many of the foods we eat now didn't exist in our part of the world even as little as 200 years ago. Even then, it was also seasonal. I know my great grandparents has winter recipes and summer recipes, and the only sugar they used went primarily went into canning the summer fruits and berries. Heck, I was in college before I had my first taste of pomegranite, and it had to be special ordered from the fruit guy.

Caroltoo 2012-03-16 16:22:39 -0500 Report

I grew up in Southern California and had access to a wide variety of seasonal fruit and vegetables. My next door neighbor had macadamia nut and strawberry guava trees; about a mile away was a pomegranite tree with fruit mom used for jelly. We also usually had a veggie garden and canned foods. There were corn and strawberries fields within a short Saturday afternoon drive where we could pick our own to save cost.

I actually grew up on a triangular piece of land with a lemon grove on one side and navel oranges on the other two. It was wonderful until a cold snap would cause them to light all the smudge pots for heat. Ugh!!

My mom, on the other hand, grew up in Michigan and her family operated a large farm there for an ophanage. She spoke of root cellars, walking out the upstairs window onto the 12 foot snow bank, and a much more seasonal existence than we led in Southern California.

When you think about it, it's not just a question of what was grown locally to our place of birth (US), but to the place of our ancestors' birth. For me, that would be Scotland, Ireland, England, France, Netherlands, Germany, and the US as known to the native american population before the immigration of all of the rest of our ancestors.

Nick1962 2012-03-18 12:56:44 -0500 Report

So true. I grew up in the midwest and still remember the corner market (born just as the "supermarket" was coming of age). Fruit in winter for my parents was canned (think of all that sugar) because it was still too expensive to truck effectively. I also had a great grandfather who harvested ice off the local lakes in winter for cold storage houses. Amazing how far we've come (or degraded as it may be to our diets).

Off topic; but food has always been one of those subjects I've used to quiet the rabbid "buy american" opinion. Most folks don't realise that food was the first "world market" commodity dating back before biblical times. If we truly decided to only buy american, none of us would ever taste chocolate again, or sugar, or coffee, or cinnamon unless it were somehow hybridized to be grown in our climates (or black marketed). Ohh I'm miss my once a year snickerdoodle cookie!

Nick1962 2012-03-18 19:06:28 -0500 Report

Coffee alone would be my reason to move there. Imagine if the US had to depend on your production of sugar and coffee? You'd have gold plated streets!

Caroltoo 2012-03-18 19:11:22 -0500 Report

:) Some of the cane fields that have been allowed to die and go dormant would be replanted and mills reopened. Wonderful for the economy. Coffee grows on Oahu (near Wahiawa), on Big Island (Kona), and also on Kauai and Maui.

Nick1962 2012-03-18 19:20:33 -0500 Report

Hey, if you know of any tours of plantations like that let me know. I'm trying to set up an itinerary.

Caroltoo 2012-03-18 19:35:19 -0500 Report

There are some on the Big Island of Hawaii … lots of little plantations a ways east and up the slopes of the mountain from Kona … I've seen a few advertise tours. I don't think they do on Oahu. It's a newer industry here. The fields are plainly visible from Kamehameha Highway, in fact they are in fields that were sugar cane fields when I moved here 21 years ago.

I know nothing about the plantations on Maui, Kauai, and Molokai. I just occasionally buy their coffee in Safeway. If they do tours, I'm sure you can find it by googling.

jayabee52 2012-03-15 21:09:05 -0500 Report

I eat kinda paleo but didn't know it.

Caroltoo 2012-03-15 21:12:37 -0500 Report

Yes, I realized I do also. I've been struggling to add in more veggies of the low carb variety, but by choice I'd eat primarily eggs, meat, and shellfish with the occasional veggie for variety. I've been trying add salads recently, but continue to struggle with it.

jayabee52 2012-03-15 21:17:23 -0500 Report

I pictured it as eating mainly raw foods, but that was my misconception.

Caroltoo 2012-03-16 00:50:17 -0500 Report

I think that's what I was thinking also. When Nick mentioned that he ate a modified Paleo diet, I didn't realize the extent of the similarities either even though he has always said that the three of us eat in a very similar manner. I think Al is another who might fit into that category, though he does use meds.

I hope Nick and Al chime in here. If I'm right about that, then the three of us who are most vocal about controling D with food and exercise instead of medications are following some version of this plan. That, in itself, is food for thought.

jigsaw 2012-03-16 20:02:46 -0500 Report

I'll try to add a bit of my diet experience. I've seen James diet, and listened to you and Nick discuss your diet plans. With the exception of minor variations and tweaks, I see a great deal of similarities with the food plans that we all follow. Now here is where I (POSSIBLY) veer from all three of you, and I hope we can all enjoy a learning experience, and gain some good points !
I started out with the Atkins Diet about 18 years ago. At that time, I was experiencing the honeymoon version of my diabetes. I apparently had some additional undiagnosed metabolic problems because my triglycerides were 750 and my HDL was a low low 20. Atkins was not well known at that time, and I know of no one that recommended him personally. Within one year of following Atkins, and a new exercise program consisting of strength training and cardio, my triglycerides dropped to 80, and my HDL increased to 38. Throughout the next 6 years or so I did not need any meds. My a1c stayed at a consistent 6.0 and my total cholesterol was 160. Currently, my total cholesterol is about 120. My doctors (all 5 of them back then), said it couldn't be done. I guess I fooled them all when they saw the results of my blood tests.
Eventually, about the 6th or 7th year, I started with a light dose of Amaryl (1mg) only 1/2 of the smallest dose available. My carb intake was very low at the time and I did not eat any processed foods hardly at all and with little exception. I even wrangled with non believers back in 2009 right here on DC . Wish you could see the posts. Jayabee was a newbee back then and I remember when he came on board. Anyway, I continually over the years adjusted my carb intake, and increased my exercise routine as necessary. I also had to increase my meds gradually as my insulin output decreased. I still feel good after 18 years, no complications at all so far.
Now here's the kicker and the reason I added some whole wheat products like breads, cereals, and a bit of pasta ( How terrible right ?). I am fortunate to have excellent insurance. I had some CT scans done and I was surprised at the results. I was found to have some atherosclerosis of the lower abdomen (inadvertently). Strange, since my lipid counts, and all blood tests for 16 years were excellent ! I also started getting monster cramps, and horrendous constipation. My latest dietician told me to alter my diet. She said it would reverse the atherosclerosis and help with the cramps and constipation. I was skeptical after years of what I considered a successful meal plan. I was also desperate, so I did as she said. Well, it has worked. No more cramps or constipation, and atheroscleroses was not mentioned in my last scan a year later. So that's a bit of my story. Go ahead and question me, or point out the errors of my ways. I really respect all of you, and a debate to clarify possible flaws concerning meal plans could be a great advantage to all. I do have opinions, but they are not steadfast.

GinnyWho 2012-03-23 14:04:20 -0500 Report

Have you tried Dreamfields pasta? It has fiber and something with the complex of the pasta only enables you to absorb a small amount of carbs. Sugar busters and Atkins have both worked well for me in the past. I have had a hard time sticking to either, but now it is a way of life. Sugar Busters type eating allows those whole grains in moderation.

Caroltoo 2012-03-23 15:19:59 -0500 Report

When I use pasta, which isn't very often, I use a quinoa version because I am gluten intolerant and would be in pain for a couple weeks if I ate Dreamfields.

jigsaw 2012-03-23 14:28:40 -0500 Report

Yes I have. It's kind of scarce around here and difficult to find. I make my own 100% whole wheat pasta from scratch with a pasta machine. I can only have a small portion, and not to often. Along with pasta I add protien such as meat or my own turkey sausages made in my electric meat grinding sausage maker. The protein helps to slow the absorption of carbs.

Nick1962 2012-03-18 13:12:26 -0500 Report

I'm right with you there Al. I did find that I could actually be "carb shy" on some days which caused cramping - I was told I was burning up all my protein which did show up low on one test. Considering how much protein I was consuming, that shouldn't have happened That said, after about two years I did start to reintroduce small portions of whole grain breads and some pasta or rice. My trigs dropped dramatically as well. I'm kind of at a standstill now weight loss wise, unless i really up the exercise, but I'm at a comfortable size. And yeah, who knows, in another 6 months I may have to re-evaluate my plan for health reasons, but as long as I use my blood tests as a "dashboard" and keep all those needles where they belong on the gages, it's working for me.

jigsaw 2012-03-18 16:17:46 -0500 Report

The versatile thinking here, and the open mindedness as well, is what makes it a pleasure. I have found that just when i think I really have a handle on it, I get hit with a curve ball. It's a constant learning process that happens to be almost fluid. Endless variables, and what is right today just might be wrong tomorrow.
I agree with both your comments and Carols. The best we can do is keep our ears and eyes open with the ever growing and often changing knowledge base that comes our way.

Caroltoo 2012-03-18 19:49:00 -0500 Report

This is a condition where you have to be versatile to thrive! When you are in tune with your body, you make changes as your body changes. We sure aren't in a static situation!

Nick1962 2012-03-18 20:52:55 -0500 Report

So true! I actually hate to say it, but it can be fun, almost a hobby. And some times addictive. I know a model train enthusiast who will focus on the blades of grass in his dioramas. I know how many points one slice of pepperoni will raise me.

Caroltoo 2012-03-18 21:01:51 -0500 Report

True, but attention to that kind of detail keeps us alive and healthy. A blade of grass may make him feel good, but it's not an issue of continued health. DC can be addictive though.

Nick1962 2012-03-18 19:48:18 -0500 Report

Yup, and as I look at members like Richard, who has dealt with it for a lifetime, it is something you have to adapt constantly. You can never retire.
I think we're all on the same "base" diet, which obviously works for us.
One other aspect of mine is calories in, calories out. When I saw just how few calories I was burning in a day, and how many I consumed I was shocked. Once I found how many calories I needed per day, I also looked at the calories themselves. If they were beneficial calories (rich in protein, vitamins, etc.) I kept them. If not, they were out.
Amazing that I cut my intake by a good 75%. Not sure if I was was way out of control or if our current lifestyle habbits are way out of whack, but a Big Mac now could sustain me for nearly 3 days.

Caroltoo 2012-03-18 20:21:34 -0500 Report

We can go three for three on that one … I had to make adjustments because I had not been using any oil and started using EVOO so had to subtract some elsewhere to continue slow weight loss.

jigsaw 2012-03-18 20:18:13 -0500 Report

I had to cut my cal. intake substantially also. The hunger was tremendous until my body adjusted. It was mainly to increase my carb and protein intake and still maintain good bg.

Nick1962 2012-03-18 20:45:53 -0500 Report

I didn't have issues with hunger, just "taste". If I had a hankerin' for biscuits, I had to find a substitute (which there really is none), but celery and peanut butter filled me enough that I didn't think about it.

Caroltoo 2012-03-18 20:50:39 -0500 Report

How true … biscuits are a loss to me too. I keep a jar of crunchy peanut butter by my computer.

Caroltoo 2012-03-18 19:54:53 -0500 Report

Some of MacDonald's meals do have several days worth of calories! Way too much. If I ever stray in there in a food emergency, it's to a simple hamburger and I toss the bun before I even get to a talbe so I can't rationalize a way to think it's ok for me to eat it.

Caroltoo 2012-03-23 15:22:06 -0500 Report

In a pinch, I'm looking for the highest protein for the fewest calories/carbs, but most of the time I cook organically so I really don't do it often.

Caroltoo 2012-03-23 19:34:43 -0500 Report

Nice addition to the Black Angus, but frankly I'm such a meat lover I could just eat the beef. I'd be a good representative for the organic cattle industry … just make mine organic beef.

Incidentally, I found Safeway had started carrying organic grass fed ground beef when I was in last night. It is less expensive than their range fed Bison. I've been happy to see them bringing in more organically grown fruit and vegetables, because they are so much less expensive than Whole Foods.

jigsaw 2012-03-23 20:04:00 -0500 Report

That's terrific that safeway is doing that. I haven't seen any safeways around, but we do have Wells Farms and their cattle are grass fed. No veges or fruits there, but their meat is competively priced, fresh and tasty.

Graylin Bee
Graylin Bee 2012-03-23 17:12:48 -0500 Report

Well, it should be good for you, after all Big Gov approved it. They would never want o do us harm. (Jayabee, have you made that sarcasm font yet!!)

jayabee52 2012-03-23 19:31:46 -0500 Report

yep GB! Just do (sarcasm:/on) and at the end (Sarcasm:/off) it will turn the font on and off — BTW I got some florida swampland for sale cheap!

Caroltoo 2012-03-18 20:19:06 -0500 Report

Oh, you want to talk about all the soy fillers or what? I actually I prefer a Jack in the Box egg roll, but that's another story because of the fat.

jigsaw 2012-03-18 20:39:40 -0500 Report

No, I was thinking of what type of preservatives are in them ! I heard hands down, a Mac burger will sit on a shelf much longer then say a good home made burger before it looks or smells inedible. I never tried it and don't think I will. I do wonder about it.

Caroltoo 2012-03-18 20:48:15 -0500 Report

That's probably true also, they do bump my pulse up a bit (which is how I react to preservatives) and is another reason why I'm not a fan.

Your description of shelf life makes me think of a comment I read many years ago about a maraschino cherry surviving unharmed up to two years in a compost pile. Haven't eaten one since then.

jigsaw 2012-03-18 20:57:55 -0500 Report

On that note, I,m gonna hit the sack! Still got this cold, and I'm feeling kind of drained. Have a good night. Sure glad I don't like maraschino cherries!

Caroltoo 2012-03-16 20:44:06 -0500 Report

I think perhaps it's different bodies, all with diabetes, but with different complications.

I was eating some grain (love all those you mentioned adding back in) and that is when I was having the pain, cramps, digestive and intestinal gas, and even occasional bleeding. Felt terrible. When I tried the gluten free diet is when I got rid of all those symptoms.

That having been said, I do use a little quinoa and some rice products when I want to stray into the grains. I don't do it often, maybe 1 slice of bread/bagel/Eng. Muffin and EITHER a g-f chicken fettuccine OR a g-f mac and cheese weekly. The rest of my carbs are non-grains but still high fiber.

So far all is good for me. If I ever saw signs of kidney disease or other complications w/r/t cardiovascular system, I would be considering a change. You found a problem and appear to have a solution to it. That is the beauty and the challenge of this disease and it's complications—there are soooo many options.

When I started I did something similar to what I recommend to newcomers, but I also always say: you have to find what works for you, this is just a place to start. I don't think we have any real differences there, Al. I am just at the spot where it is working for us. I hope it continues to, but if it doesn't, I'll reinvent my diet to deal with whatever comes up next.

jigsaw 2012-03-16 21:22:31 -0500 Report

Well said Carol, and I agree with you for the most part. Bottom line, none of us are experts. Because our bodies are so intricate and unique, it stands to reason that we are all experimenting to some degree. I do suspect that there are some constants concerning low carb diets that may apply to many. I definitely restrict my carbs as do all of you to various extents. I also suspect it can be a risky business . As I explained, I had no warnings of developing problems. I was under the care of numerous physicians. The scans That I had done are rarely performed on most people. They inadvertently happen to come accross my developing problem, stricktly by chance. The head of surgery, and also a professor at Duke University Hosp said, and I quote " 60% of the people walking around in this hospital would be amazed at what they are walking around with internally, if they had the hi tech tests that you have had". The human body does not always deliver a warning, even if you are atuned. My pancreatic cyst would be unknown except for chance also. It also was discovered inadvertently. Pancreatic cancer generally has no symptoms either until it's near the final stage, and then it's to late. That's why I am being watched with hi-tech equipment.
I believe carb restriction is an absolute for diabetics, but I also believe a few of these low carb diets have various flaws.

Caroltoo 2012-03-17 01:01:33 -0500 Report

I do agree with that Al. I, too, have a pancreatic cyst which we are watching. I go for my next abdominal scan in 3 more months. I think this is the result of pancreatitis which came with my gall bladder stones/infection, but time will tell. I've only had scans because I asked for them as a way of determining whether or not I had remaining gall stones—I knew I had passed a lot. Doc suggested the gall bladder scan, then said if we were doing it, we may as well do the entire abdomen. I wholeheartedly agreed and we did. Result: one kidney cyst which she doesn't seem to be concerned about (my mom had polycystic kidneys so I'd attribute that to genetics), 1 remaining gall stone too large to pass (or to get stuck, thankfully), and 1 small cyst on the pancreas which we are watching. Definitely a believer in high tech imaging.

jigsaw 2012-03-17 18:52:25 -0500 Report

I passed a kidney stone 2 years ago, 1st experience. It was due to dehydration from riding my road bike 30 miles during a 100 degree index. So you see, I took care of the bg, and got a kidney stone instead ! Been drinking alot of water lately.
I know what gallstones can do. I saw a friend of mine buckle to his knees and turn white as a ghost during an attack. This was a 280lb football player. I hope you don't have to deal with anymore stones of any kind. That goes for both of us !

dietcherry 2012-03-17 20:02:54 -0500 Report

OMG!!!!! Its AWFUL to watch someone pass a gallstone!!!!!! Ive heard people say theyd rather be dead than go through it! Im praying I NEVER experience it :(

jigsaw 2012-03-17 20:29:48 -0500 Report

It's a scarey thought for sure. Truthfully, the kidney stone was more than enough for me. I had no idea what was happening at the time it occurred. My legs got rubbery, I got light headed and told my wife to get me to the hospital. Make a long story short, I think I have an idea of what it feels like to give birth to a rock with the wrong paraphernalia.

Caroltoo 2012-03-18 19:03:14 -0500 Report

I have, on occasion, commented that I thought birthing my three kidney stones (on three separate occasions over about a three year period) was worse than giving birth to my son. The gall stone, on the other hand, was painful, but not as bad so I'm assuming it was smaller w/r/t ducting it had to pass through. YES, it is a bad experience, Al, regardless!

Kirla 2012-03-16 10:36:41 -0500 Report


For the last 3 years I have been following a lower carb diet and was able to quit meds and have been controlling my blood sugar with diet only ever since. My A1C went from 14.1 to 5.9 in less than a few months and have kept it at or below 6 ever since.

I always calm to follow a modified Atkins diet. But most low carb diet are similar. I once told a friend on Mydiablog that I kind of follow a modified Paleo diet. She was quit to point out that if I were following the Paleo diet I wouldn’t be eating peanuts or soy. So I’m back to Atkins. The only reason I say modified is because I don’t believe in eating as much saturated fat as Atkins calms you can eat. I find if I consume too much saturated fat my cholesterol goes up. So I try and keep my saturated fat to about 10% or less of total calories. Lots of people can eat more and still have good numbers.


Nick1962 2012-03-16 11:53:33 -0500 Report

Agreed, I suppose the more modern term "Atkins" would be appropriate for my feeding plan. There are a few folks I know that are as near to a strict "Paleo" plan (and have been for years) as they can get. I'm somewhere in between.

Caroltoo 2012-03-16 11:50:57 -0500 Report

Hi, Keven,

Good to hear from you again! I tend to use the MUFAS for my fats, well, except for what I get with red meat. I am using more EVOO and coconut oils these days and enjoying my avocados.

My approach is never a strict one, be it Atkins, Paleo, or whatever, but rather to blend to things from each that seem to work for me. Modification is my byword. Most low carbohydrate diets seem quite similar to me also. Sometimes I think that to right a book and make money, you just need to rename an old product and put a new spin on it. More cynical than I usually am, but they are so much a like.

I just want to eat what makes me function well so I can live my life with as little interference from health issues as possible.


dubyadd 2012-03-15 22:45:22 -0500 Report

eggs, meat and shellfish, wow , have you had a lipid profile recently? To me that's a formula for gout, high cholesterol and triglycerides. Please add some regular fish, salmon is excellent, but others are good too. And cooked veggies, like oven baked sliced zuchinni, spaghetti squash, broccoli, and cauliflower. I mash up cauliflower and mix with mashed potatoes 2/3 to 1/3 potatoes. Use olive oil or grapeseed oil, or garlic infused oil, or any oil you like in place of butter and lots of seasoning. That is if you like mashed potatoes. And a few nuts to your diet, just a handful a day. Balance is the key.

Caroltoo 2012-03-16 00:45:09 -0500 Report

My lipid profile is great, no gout, triglycerides are good, cholesterol is normal, and I don't use medicine to manage my diabetes.

The article includes low carbohydrate veggies and the picture on page 2 shows lots of them. Did you go to link? That's where the complete information is. All the food you mentioned is in there except potatoes.

Nick1962 2012-03-16 11:48:31 -0500 Report

Ditto here, my lipid profile is the best I've ever had. I don't follow a true Paleo meal (because I think it's nearly impossible these days), but things like oil and potatos are not in my daily meal plan. A paleo diet would assume the fats and oils consumed would be derived from animals.

Caroltoo 2012-03-16 11:56:10 -0500 Report

Whatever we call it, what we are doing is working for us. I'm with you on this, I pick and choose what works for me w/r/t health and availability.

Nick1962 2012-03-16 15:34:47 -0500 Report

Where I deviate from Atkins is actually further restrictions. In step 3 of Atkins, you pick foods under 10 grams of carbs. In my plan (which is a mix of Atkins, Paleo, and Transitions Life Style) we pick from foods under 7 carbs which cuts things like beans down by about 2/3. We are also very critical about sugar, so I limit my intake of fruits (like Atkins and South Beach), but I was never a real fruit eater anyway. Some vegetables get cut out also. Protein is a big player for me, but I know too much is a risk and linked to osteoporosis, heart disease, colon cancer, and renal disease, so I try not to overdo it. Fat is really not an issue on this diet, and supplements/replacements are not used unless the nutrition absolutely cannot be gained through whole food. It is a simple, yet sometimes boring feeding plan. I won’t lie and say I don’t deviate from it, or really go overboard on unsalted nuts, but I can say I have cut my daily carb, sugar and caloric consumption drastically. Willpower is a must, but like any goal, you don’t win without some effort.

Nick1962 2012-03-18 13:29:19 -0500 Report

It's pretty much the work of Dr. Shari Lieberman. She kind of tweaked Atkins with a low GI twist. She does push supplements, which is the part I don't do.
She's also big on reading labels, and has made a push to remove such labeling as "lean", and "healthy" on products that really aren't.

Caroltoo 2012-03-18 19:04:53 -0500 Report

Sounds very much like where I am. I do supplement because I assume that I don't get full nutritional value from food because of the damage done by my gluten intolerance or Celiac disease, whichever it really is.

jigsaw 2012-03-18 19:40:13 -0500 Report

I do take supplements, and have for many years. I 've also had blood tests years back for vitamin and mineral levels. These tests were done by a naturopathic doctor. I have a suspicion that having diabetes, and some associated metabolic problems, my body is not deriving the full potential and nutrional values possible from food sources. Also, it appears that some of the meds I take, complicate these matters more so. I do occasionally get a blood test for certain vitamins.

Nick1962 2012-03-18 19:36:34 -0500 Report

I know you have bloodwork done regularly, but i was very suprised by mine. My main deficiency is alpha-aminos, I seem to be getting everything else quite well, so i supplement with fish/krill oil which lowers blood pressure. I just can't get enough to balance out the medication. Might be, as you suggest, the damage is already done.