water intake

Jim Edwards
By Jim Edwards Latest Reply 2011-05-14 23:03:32 -0600
Started 2011-04-11 15:22:35 -0600

I hear different things about drinking water and a lot of them conflict with my logic. I never claimed my logic was right, but it is right until I am shown different. I understand that we can drink too much water. When I asked my doctor he said it is because it causes the kidney has to process it. Now, if I was a kidney, I would say "Thanks for the water. You are helping me to flush a lot of junk out of your system and you are hydrating the rest of your body". If you ingest a food that is not real good for you, your kidney process it "pure". If you "wash it down" with a quart of water, then your kidney has more to process, but it is not in concentration. Enlighten me, please. I have learned so much already. Thansk.


93 replies

Armourer
Armourer 2011-04-16 15:40:03 -0500 Report

The more over-weight you are the more water you need to intake. Yes, you can drink to much water, but it is a lot of water! A few years ago in our community a little girl died from to much water intake as a punishment from her foster parents who went to prison. Remember she was small, very young, but an example that to much water is not a good thing. That said, I'm always thirsty, so I drink about a gallon of water a day.

ESTIMAGE
ESTIMAGE 2011-05-02 12:31:24 -0500 Report

I have never liked drinking water, until i was diagnosed with Diabetes. I drank alot of water at first because i was so thirsty. It did take the water off. Once my doctor got my sugar under control, i wasn't as thirsty anymore. Then i began to start putting on the weight again especially around my mid section. I now have to start cutting back on eating all these different starches and eat more vegetables and drink more water, because i know for sure it helps. And it is true the more over weight you are the more water you need to drink.

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-05-02 14:54:50 -0500 Report

I went from drinking sweet tea to water. Not a change I relished, but one that had to be done. For veggies, make sure you watch corn & peas, as these are starches. Once I lose 65 more pounds I won't be overweight. Right now my sugars are wacko and I know the Insulin isn't doing me any good. Doctor visit next week.

ESTIMAGE
ESTIMAGE 2011-05-02 15:25:33 -0500 Report

Yes, i love tea , i drink it more than water, but i have to drink less tea and more water. Ionly eat vegetables like carrots and greens, not much peas. Like i said i lost about 50lbs, but it was easy for me to put the weight back on. Now i drinking more water to lose it again, and this time i am going to make sure i keep it off.

Megahit
Megahit 2011-04-15 18:08:22 -0500 Report

I tried reading most of the replies so I dont repeat things but there's 82…I tried.

If you go on a food pyramid web page or look up recommendations online, I'm sure there's a water calculator somewhere. Water intake guidelines is a math problem just like calorie needs. I really dont think its easy to overdo water. The first sign is bloating..so if you feel bloated after drinking water, you could be taking in to much. Bodily, by taking in too much water you can dilute the salt in blood and reduce electrolytes, which can be dangerous. Again, I dont think its common to the average american. This is more of an issue of athletes that sweat and drink water as part of their career. I feel like it would uncomfortable for most people to drink the amount of water that can be fatal. Most people get too little…(one sign of that is being hungry and eating instead of drinking).

I try to drink a lot of water everyday to keep the metabolism movin'. I probably drink atleast 64oz of water a day. It's been hard for me to get much more than that in.

kittenpurr1
kittenpurr1 2011-04-16 12:50:05 -0500 Report

I like your answer here regarding water in take. It's true. Most people don't get enough water. Too much can flush electrolytes, but that's a lot of water.

Asheenita
Asheenita 2011-04-14 13:06:48 -0500 Report

I know how you feel, but it can be dangerous to take in too much water. I am a living witness to that. I spent six days in the hospital for respritory failure because I had too much fluid in my system. Be careful with you intake of fluids.

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-14 13:34:41 -0500 Report

Thanks for that comment. A few questions, if you can and/or will answer them. Was water your primary liquid intake? Is too much fluid in your system because you consumed too much fluid, or because your body retained it? During most of the year, I would expect my output (urine) to be about 75% of my intake. During the summer, if I am keeping hydrated, I would suspect it to be about 50/50, because of my body needing more fluids. My main liquid is water (95%) with the other 5% being iced tea or hot tea. Jim

Tigereyze209
Tigereyze209 2011-04-12 17:08:53 -0500 Report

Keep in mind, I am only expressing my opinion, not actual fact, BUT, my take is that if you eat or drink too much of anything, even something good for you, that is unhealthy. With water, you can literally drown your tissues, or, and keep in mind, I have never actually heard of anyone doing this, rupture your stomach from over filling. Now, is a gallon too much for one person a day? Definately, if you try to drink that much all at once. But if you mean, a few sips at a time, spread out over an entire day, that is actually about right for an average healthy adult male. If you are working out and sweating a lot, even more to keep hydrated is called for. My two cents worth, and keep the change.
I am sure glad you can edit these posts. I wrote without looking at all the other ones put here first.. we have some very well informed folks on this site, let me tell you. Okay, point of clarification, when I say water, I mean that literally. If you try to count what is mixed in with other stuff like sodas, tea, coffee, sports drinks, etc. all that stuff mixed with it is like a wild card. Some can act as a diuretic, which means, it will cause you to lose more water than what you take in. And other stuff can change your metabolic balance (like too much sugar, sodium, etc.) so one has to use moderation. WOW! I know it is a lot to take in at once, but a bunch of good info if one takes the time to read it.

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-14 10:04:28 -0500 Report

Thanks for your input. I, myself, have not had much problem with input and output, they seem to be balance. In the summer, with the same input, the output decreases as my body demands more water. I don't think I could drink a gallon of water at one time! LOL! Unless someone double dared me! Water is 95% of my liquid intake. I forgot about the diuretics! Thanks for throwing in that wild card! I think tea is one, but I am not sure. I will tell you, this site is a great source of info and fun at the same time! Jim

1cookie :)
1cookie :) 2011-04-12 14:41:49 -0500 Report

Hi, in the Dental field so I'll sound in on the tooth issue oil of CLOVES..Eugenol used in dentistry to help dry sockets after extractions..if you have decay or an absess you need to go IN so it can COME OUT… Water well like everything..in moderation is the best way..to much of most things are not good.

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-12 14:53:51 -0500 Report

Cloves contain Eugenal? I am in the dentist office 4-8 times a year. Twice for cleaning and the rest for servicing. But what do you do on between Friday night and Monday morning? I know the vodka works to get me through those times, but I suspect it may be destroying the tissue. My dentist, who will remain nameless, gave me an anitbiotic to start on when it gets inflamed, since he won't do anything while it is infected in fear of spreading it, so next time I will use that.

Art Loving
Art Loving 2011-04-12 10:49:14 -0500 Report

Yes it's called Polydipsia

Wikipedia:
This symptom is characteristically found in diabetics, often as one of the initial symptoms, and in those who fail to take their anti-diabetic medications or whose dosages have become inadequate. It can also be caused by a change in the osmolality of the extracellular fluids of the body, hypokalemia, decreased blood volume (as occurs during major hemorrhage), and other conditions that create a water deficit.[1] This is usually a result of osmotic diuresis. Diabetes insipidus ("tasteless" diabetes, as opposed to diabetes mellitus) can also cause polydipsia.[1] Polydipsia is also a symptom of anticholinergic poisoning. Zinc is also known to reduce symptoms of polydipsia by causing the body to absorb fluids more efficiently (reduction of diarhhea, induces constipation) and it causes the body to retain more sodium. So a zinc deficiency can be a possible cause.

[edit] Polydipsia in psychiatric subsetsMain article: Psychogenic polydipsia
Psychogenic polydipsia is an excessive water intake[1] seen in some patients with mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, and/or the developmentally disabled. It should be taken very seriously, as the amount of water ingested exceeds the amount that can be excreted by the kidneys,[1] and can on rare occasions be life-threatening as the body's serum sodium level is diluted to an extent that seizures and cardiac arrest can occur.

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-12 12:07:08 -0500 Report

Thanks Art. I can always count on DC to provide me with an education! Now, I will need to get hold of a dictionary to understand some of the Wikipedia language, but I do have the gist of it.

knit57
knit57 2011-04-12 10:16:58 -0500 Report

Water intake is VERY frustrating! I have been dealing with it for the past 10 years. Everything you are told conflicts what the last Dr. said. My husband had Cardic Heat Failure (CHF) we were told no more than 4 liters per day of liquids. After heart transplant he has been told he can't drink enough water. He has been 'dry" every blood test. Now he is undergoing Chemo. All of his nutrition comes from a feeding tube. I have been adding 12 oz. of water to the 8 oz. of "food" 5 times per day. Yesterday at the E.R. they told me I need to increase his water to 50% food % water (yes I know that is 8 oz. of water vs. the 12 I have been doing). I have come to the conclusion there is no way I can give him enough water for him not to be "dry". Dr. said that as long as you are not in danger of CHF water is unlimited. just watch for shortenss of breath and swelling in ankles.

The Diabetic Nutritionist told me my BS would go down if I drank "lots" of water. She said it would be impossiable for me to drink too much water. She also said that for every 8 oz. of coffee, tea, or soft drinks I needed to dring 16oz. of water.

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-12 10:39:04 -0500 Report

WOW knit!You hit many nails on the head. A lot of conflicting info. I wonder if part of the problem is that either the medical provider or us fail to ask the right questions. I feel frustrated at times because I don't necessarily know the questions I need to ask. At 57, I am at the age where I was raised that the doctor knows it all, but we know that is not true and can't be true. I am getting better at the questions, but often the doctor does not know the answers. To my doctor's credit he says so and promises to look into it and I agree to do so too. Often I get a call from him on day 3 or 4. So sorry to hear of the chemo. My Dad when through that when he was 82. I agree with your DN. As I stated below, I think the water is needed to dilute our other "sins", like coffee & tea.

jayabee52
jayabee52 2011-04-12 10:37:56 -0500 Report

My bride "Jem" had much the same problem as your husband, Rosanne. She had CHF, COPD, RA, Lupis(SLE), GERD, CKD, Fibro and a whole host of other "medical challenges" as she referred to them.

But toward the end of her life, she had trouble regulating her fluid balance. She seemed to be constantly on the razor's edge. She would flip between too "wet" and to "dry" overnight. And if we tried to correct for that wetness or dryness by using diuretics or drinking more, the next day she'd be over the top the other way. It was very frustrating for her, and for me to watch her go through that.

knit57
knit57 2011-04-12 11:22:11 -0500 Report

It is a huge challange to deal with a loved ones illnes. We had a wonderful outcome from the CHF - i.e. we received a heart transplant 10 months after the orginal heartattack. We had been married 3 years at that time. Like you, we went from failure to dehydration in the blink of an eye. Until they finally hospitalized him we were in the E.R. every weekend. 15 visits in 3 months! But it all worked out. And we got 10 years more than we would have had.. Somehow I knew it would all be fine. This time the issues are bigger and are not going to have a good outcome. 10 years ago, I hadn't been diganosed with Diabeties. This time it is hard to balance my needs with his. One day last week I was checking my sugar, he asked me what I was doing, I told him, he said well you have to stop and get me a drink! All food stinks to him - he can't stand the smell of anything I cook or try to eat. He can't stand for me to be in another room, even long enough to eat. I am still working and he feels like when I am home I need to be where he can see me at all times. Thank God I am not inslun dependant, so I can skip a meal or 2 without my numbers dropping, or getting too high. Will find out on Thursday if I am in denial, that is when I have my 6 mo. checkup. Had the bloodwork drawn last week. i am losing weight, but this is not the way I had planned to do it.

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-12 12:47:22 -0500 Report

Hello Knit-These times are hard. My Dad died 4 years ago from multiple cancers. Thankfully only his last 6 weeks were really bad. He had fought these battles on and off for 10 years, but he knew this was his last fight.
My thoughts and prayers are with you. Jim

knit57
knit57 2011-04-12 21:23:42 -0500 Report

Jim,
Thank you. I really didn't mean to on topics that have nothing to do with Diabetes, - but that is where my thoughts go. I feel so blessed to have found this community. When we had CHF I found a wonderful group that gave me much needed support. I tried a couple of other sites that will remain nameless - there were VERY unkind, and not supportive to new people. I am so glad my computer found this site! RA

jayabee52
jayabee52 2011-04-12 12:15:24 -0500 Report

Yes Rosanne, it is a challenge to deal with a loved one's illness, however I went into our relationship knowing that she was seriously ill. I had fallen in love with her, all of her, medical challenges and all, so I was ready for the challenge. I had been a CNA 10 yrs before my disability, so I was used to dealing with sick people. But I could (in fact was required for my mental health) to put some emotional distance between the client and me. But with Jem it was different, yet I could go into my CNA mode if necessary. But it was hard when she had Lupis or RA flare-ups and she was in such intense pain. That was hard for me to witness, feeling helpless to do anything to help or comfort her.

BTW: Are you testing your Blood glucose numbers ("BG#s") regularly Rosanne?

Unexplained weight loss can occur for many diferent reasons. One of those reasons may be diabetic keto acidosis. It can occur when your BG#s are not controlled. That can cause a stay in the hospital, a coma or in extreme cases, death. Check with your Dr about Ketones. They check your urine for those.

Not long before Jem passed from this life, she passed a milestone: 20 yrs of CHF.
Actually she really needed a heart - lung - kidney transplant, but because of her Lupis, she was unable to have them.

I note elsewhere that your hubby is getting nutrition & fluid through a tube? Is it a NG tube or a Gastric Tube. I had a couple of clients who got all their intake through a in the stomach tube.

Well I am praying for you and yours.

Blessings!

James

knit57
knit57 2011-04-12 14:20:41 -0500 Report

Jen was lucky to have you! My husband's heart problems were a total shock to both of us. The cancer I knew to expect at some point down the road - transplant is trading one set of problems for another. It has just progressed so fast. As you know there is no emotioanl distance, but that is okay. I know that no matter how long each day seems, no matter now many sleepless nights we have, soon it will seem like it was way too short. I have a dear friend with RA - I have a very hard time dealing with her flair ups - when I first got to know her she was adicted to a very bad pain med. I couldn't understand how any Dr. could prescribe that much pain medication to anyone - but when I was with her in the E.R. (she called me to take her home AMA) during a flair up, I understood how the adiction happened.

I am checking my Blood Glucose numbers at least once a day. So far they have been good. (98 to 118) The weight loss is happening because I am not eating. I can afford to lose the weight - so that is not all bad. Excpet I know I am not doing it in a healthy way. Dr. will check my urine on Thursday. Actually I hm hoping to have a disscussion with him about my need for

20 years is a long time to battle CHF. I admire both of you for being able to successfully controll it. I know how hard that is. Transplant is a wonderful thing, but you have to understand and accept the problems that go with it. I honestly thought we would be facing kidney failure next - actually transplant thinks that is the next step. They have warned me that dialysis is in the near future - if he makes it that long. (We are 2 months + or - even with treatment) Drs. have told me privately could be any day..

I am not sure what kind of feeding tube we have - I think it is a Gastric Tube. It is okay - I feel really good with myself when he doesn't lose any weight! 3 weeks in - he has only lost 1 pound. Before that he was losing about 4# a week. The transplant makes him very low on Magnessium and very high on Potassium. The first week they had to give him Magnessium via I.V. when we went for Chemo. Since then I have been able to get enough in the feeding tube. We feed every 3 hours 7 am to 11pm. For now he is able to do 2 of them himself - I am trying to keep my job. I am his sole caretaker.

Blessings to you
Roseanne

jayabee52
jayabee52 2011-04-12 15:54:24 -0500 Report

Jem was chronically low on Mg too. We tried various Mg suppliments like Slo-Mag and others, but eventully she started with the "dumping syndrome" The Mg pills even came through her GI system whole when that happened. We had to have a port-a-cath inserted in her to give her the Mg intravenously (she had tiny, hard to hit veins), so no more dumping. She was chronically low on Potass too, but she couldn't take it by IV because it "burned" when she had tried it before so she had supliments for it.

20 yrs she was under the care of the Kaiser-Permnente heart transplant clinic in Santa Clara CA. Even though they were about 45 mins away they helped her with her heart care. Mainly by telephone management of her med regimen and quarterly Clinic visits.

She was unable to have transplants of what she needed due to her Lupis. And she could not have a pacemaker either. They said a pacemake failure would be "catastrophic" for her. We didn't quite understand that.

Both Jem & I were dialysis parients. She had perienal dialysis, but was allergic to the latex in the dialysis ports so after about 3 or 4 mos they DC'd that and put her on Hemodialysis. They were mainly trying to pull fluid off her. But that was DC'd too because it wasn't working as well as diuretics.

I ended up on hemodialysis because my kidneys failed due to an infection. (this was before I met Jem online). I had been out dancing the weekend of Halloween, and started on Sat night's dance to upchuck. I had been having problems with peripheral vertigo for years before and so thought that was acting up again. (I had had a beer or two on Fri nite, but on Sat nite — no alcohol) I went to car and laid my seat back and fell asleep. I eventually drove home and went to bed. I went to my dance class as usual on Sun nite, not quite feeling right so I didn't go out after the class as usual. I went to bed that night, and somehow ended up on my bedroom floor. I laid on that floor for about 5 days & Nights but it seemed to me like only 1 night.

Later I figured it out because my son came out on his birthday and his birthday was Nov 7. I knew I went to bed the night of Nov 1. He took me to ER (after some discussion — because at that time I hadn't figured out how long I had been "out"
—- and I didn't feel all that bad —- just kinda weak). At ER they tested me and said my kidneys had shut down due to an infecton and I needed to go on dialysis. Perhaps for the rest of my life —- or until I got a transplant.

Fortunately in July 2007 (about 10 mos) it was discovered I no longer needed dialysis because my kidneys started working well enough to discontinue treatment.

I met Jem online Nov 2007.

The "G tube" goes directly into the stomach from the outside. The N-G tube goes in the nose and down the throat into the stomach. 2 or 3 of my long term clients had the G tube. That was their only source of fluid and nourishment.

I pray you get occasional "respite care" visits from an agency of some kind. (I did some of those visits as a CNA.) The stress of caregiving 24/7 can get to be too much sometimes. Please don't forget to take care of YOU too, Roseanne. Sounds like your husband is needy, and he can suck the energy out of you.
Please take care of yourself so you can better take care of him.

Continued prayers for blessings to you and yours

James

knit57
knit57 2011-04-12 21:55:19 -0500 Report

James,
First - (just in case you get tired of reading this) What kind of dancing do you do? My youngest son is a Swing Dancer out of Seattle WA. He loves it.

Thank you for sharing a little of your and Jem's story. It really helps to know there are other people out there who truly understand. This is all a learning experiance. We do have a G-Tube. He also has a port-a-cath, for Chemo.
We are using Magox. 2 400mg tabs 3 times a day before G Tube, now I have added two single tab doses, so he is up to 8 tabs per day. Seems to be working. Transplans says whatever works. Since his blood is tested weekly, I am not in danger of OD'ing him. When he was in CHF we fought low potass. But post transplant that is a thing of the past. Just when I think I have things figured out, the Drs. hit me with something hew. Sometimes I think they not only tell Charlie what he is ready to hear, but they are giving it to me in small doese too! Last week we saw the ENT just for a follow-up. Dr. said good news - his air way is clear, if he needs a trach done it will be fine. Didn't knwo we might need a trach. I have talked to some of the Drs. alone. Lung Dr. let me see the PET Scan and the CAT Scan she did, showed me the tumors, and read the report to me. Chemo Dr. came in and asked about Charlie's post transplant activity levels and life style. We told him that Charlie was running 5's after transplant. Dr. said Well we will have him running 5K's again. Exactly I am sure what Charlie needed to hear. But I was thinking RIGHT. I called the office and told the nurse pract. I needed to have a prognosis. She gave it to me. It was about what I thought. Last week Chemo Dr. said the Chemo is working - he expects really good results form next weeks CAT SCAN. The E.R. Dr. yesterday, said we were risking his life by taking him home instead of agreeing to inpatent. But they could understand if he wanted to spend his end time at home. THANKS DOCTOR. Charlie is still in denial about the Lungs.

He got his transplant at Jewish Hospital in Louisville KY. About 85 miles from home. We have to travel an hour for Chemo, in Cincinnati OH. We have to use a facility that has a transplant team on staff. Cincinnati is a little better than Louisville distance wise. His MI was in 2001. He was 15 weeks in the hospital before they put in a LVAD. He was home withe the LVAD for 2 months before we got the transplant. Transplant team has learned if they want Charlie to do something, they have to call me. He is shy, and stutters, so he hates to talk on the phone, or with anyone. He depends on me to talk for him. Until Drs. figure that out, it is difficult. When we were at the E.R. on Monday, they wouldn't let me go back with him. He refused to even put on the gown until they let me back. By the time I got there he was crying. Mostly because he could hear the Dr. talking about him. Charlie had had a headake for 4 fays, had not slept in 3 days. Chemo Dr.said to take hiim to the E.R E.R. Dr. decided the cancer had gone to his brain - pre testing and was telling the nurses. Needless to say Charlie was beyond upset by the time I got there.

At this poing respet help is out of the question. Charlie is one of 8 children, has 2 grown sons (this is both of our 2nd marriages) his mother has refused to come and help. I am on my own. Most days I tell myself it is for the best. Other days I get really pissed about it. I just take it one day at a time. Knowing it will all be over too soon.

Time to get a couple of hours of sleep before I got to work in the am. Have to see the Chemo Dr. for follow up at 2. So I have to leave work by 11:30.

Thanks for letting me vent. It helps.
RA

jayabee52
jayabee52 2011-04-15 19:34:24 -0500 Report

Rosanne,
I list the types of dance I do in the about me section of my profile. I have done a lot of types of dances. Most recently east coast swing, and most recently have been trying to learn Salsa. Seattle? My east coast swing teachers Mark and Cheryl Hovind have moved to Seattle and I think they now teach ECS dances there. If he knows them, have him greet Mark and Cheryl for me, please.

Respite care does not involve relatives, though it can. Check the phonebook to check on home-healthcare agencies, call a few of them up and ask if they do respite care.

YOU need to take care of yourself AND your health! Get some respite care even if you do no more than get some good, and I suspect, much needed sleep! You can't be at your best if you are drug out. Or do something for yourself like get your hair done or a manicure/pedicure or spa treatment.

Is Charlie on home hospice? The Dr has to Dx that the patient has 6 mo or less to live. Then they don't try to fight it (the cancer and any other complaint) anymore, they just administer comfort measures to ease him to the end of life. Look under "hospice" in the phone book.

My bride's mother had non-hodgkins lymphoma and passed Nov '08 — just before thanksgiving. She was on home hospice care, and the nurses were terrific. I had not moved there to be with Jem yet, but was there to celebrate Thanksgiving with Jem, her mom and the family.

Jem had never been married, so her mom was concerned for her welfare (as she was totally blind) and Jem and I wanted to comfort her about Jem's continuing care. So we put together a quickie "wedding" ceremony, with a chaplain friend of Jem's and Jem's family and a couple friends in attendance.

"MommaG" had become non-responsive a day or so earlier, but we had our ceremony in her bedroom. Sometime during the ceremony MommaG opened her eyes and smiled! That meant a lot to us all!

Momma G died the next day.

There are also hospice facilities (I have worked a few shifts in a couple) . Kinda like nursing homes, but they aren't about rehab like nursing homes are. They are like home hospice yet in a nursing home like setting. And the focus there is palliative care, easing pain and the comfortable transition from this life to whatever comes after. There are chaplains and social workers available for the patient and the family members to help people deal with the final realities of life.

Blessings to you and yours Roseanne

James

knit57
knit57 2011-04-17 08:28:14 -0500 Report

James,
I am so new to this group that I didn't even think to check out your profile. My son is the VP of a swing group that puts on an Easter Weekend Event. I will tell him to check the list to see if Mike and Cheryl are on the list. His number 1 love is west coast swing.

Things got much better on Tuesday for us. Monday's trip to the E.R. was very bad. Why can't Dr. and Nurses realize when you put a patient in the room right outside your station, he can hear everything you say about him??? Before they let me back with him the Dr. told the nujrses he was sure the cancer had gone to Charlie's brain. by the time I got back there he was in tears and totall non-cooperative. he would not even put the gown on. Got him settleed down, assured him he didn't have cancer in the brain, just a ad hadache. Sure enough the CT Scan sowed no brain cancer.. They wanted to to a lumbar tap, he said NO. They wanted to keep him over night he said NO. So they gave him fluids and set us home. Told us to see the Chemo Dr. on Wednesday. And told me to add more water, 50/50 food and water - I was already giving him 12 oz. of water to 8 oz of food. We are not use to big city E.R.'s and hope to never have to go again. We have pretty much decided that has to stop, because the only reason the Dr. tells us to go to the E.R. is so he can be admited. Charlie doesn;t want to be in the hopsital. I will do my best.

Things got a lot better starting Tuesday, we both actually slept! He felt good enough to drive (I was with him) a couple of days. He mowed grass two days. he is doing most of his feedings. So he is feeling good.

I am putting pain meds in his last feeding of the night, and anti-nausea pills along with his sleeping pills. It is getting both of us through the night, and he wakes up feeling good. He takes no paid meds during the day.

Riigjt now I am working full day when we don't have Dr. appt. or Chemo. He is able to stay by himself. If he gets to feelign bad, he can call one of his sons to stay with him until I can get home. At this point it iws working.

I saw my PCP on Thursday - all my blood work was good. My BP was high, but he said just keep taking your pills and we will deal with that after. he gave me "happy pills" was very supportive, said if I need pain meds or anythign else for charlie to just call him (He is Charlies PCP too - but isn;'t seeing him because there is nothing he can do) he was VRY discurraging about Charlie's condition - he is a lung specilist and I brought the PET Scan to him after the diagnosis. He said lhe thinks the Head & neck will respond well to the Chemo - but the lungs are another story. When he gave me the scrips, I said I just need a little help, and he said yes for a little while, he said, yes you do for a few weeks you will need heop, then it will all be over, you will grieve and then you will be fine. He told me to call Hospice. But honestly at this point I can't. If I call them Charlie will think I have given up on him. He is in his right mind, not in pain, and doing normal things a lot of days. So I will just manage one day at a time.

1st Dr. said we are going for quality of life. I would like to know how 3 trips to Cincinncat (and 1 to my Dr.) in 5 days is quality life by anyone's standards!

Once again I have to say Jem was so lucky to have you. God truly put the two of you on the same path for a reason. You are a very special person.

One last quesiton for you - did you have any warning that your kidneys were shuting down? the Drs. will just say don't worry about it, whhen it happens we will know by his numbers.

Thanks again
Roseanne

jayabee52
jayabee52 2011-04-17 08:58:11 -0500 Report

No, Roseanne I had no warning at all my kidneys were shutting down. In retrospect I did have some signs, my nausea and vomiting I experienced at a dance, but I dismissed it as just another attack of peripheral vertigo, which I had suffered off and on for years. Nauesa and vomiting are symptoms of a lot of other conditions too. To determine if there's kidney problems the Dr takes a blood test to meaure the Glomular Filtration Rate ("GFR"). The GFR are the numbers to which Dr refers. Here's a handout from the national kidney foundation about chronic kidney disease. In there they have the GFR levels and the "stages" of kidney disease.

My kidneys shutting down and poisoning my bloodstream wasn't scarey, or painful. I went into a semi-comatose state, almost a "twilight sleep" and I wasn't concerned at all. In fact at one point when I was on dialysis, I considered ending my life by not going back to dialysis, and let the wastes in my bloodstream build up until I died.

I choose not to do that because I didn't want to give my 3 sons a bad example WHEN life got tough for them. I had suicide ideation for a good part of my life, but that one decision defeated that desire entirely.

Now in retrospect, had I just focused on me and my desires rather than others' I would have missed out on the wonderful life with ♥♥♥
Jem with which I was so blessed.

I'm glad to hear both you and Charlie are doing better.

I continue to pray for you both.

James

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-12 10:43:51 -0500 Report

Sorry for the alphabet of medical challenges that you and your wife went through. I am sure the road was a long and difficult one. Jim

jayabee52
jayabee52 2011-04-12 10:57:17 -0500 Report

Thanks Jim!

Actually we were together only about 2 years before she passed, and we had a Long Distance relationship for about 1 yr before that. I knew about her medical challenges before I decided to move the 500+ mi to be with her. I HAD hoped we would have more time together, yet on the other hand I wouldn't want her to suffer more. She was an exceptional lady, and though our relationship was brief, we packed a lot of love and life into our nearly 2 yrs together. It was a brief, intense ride, yet I'm glad she invited me on it because her love was worth it.

James

Lakeland
Lakeland 2011-04-11 21:40:17 -0500 Report

I was told at least 64 oz of water. he told me the body can use it right away. If I understood my doctor correctly— things like teas & sodas need to get purified through the kidney so that is harder on it.

Water also helps you feel full, so it's suppose to help me not eat as much, plus being diabetic, I walk more than I did.

I'd like to know, about his theory, that is different from what I was told
diane

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-12 10:29:03 -0500 Report

I am probably close to the 64oz of water for 3 seasons of the year, then during the summer I suspect I may hit the gallon mark. Okay, here is my private guideline on water drinking…I try to drink enough water so my urine is almost clear! I have not pin pointed the relationship yet, but it appears the more yellow it is, the higher my sugar level is.

WendyFR
WendyFR 2011-04-11 18:39:27 -0500 Report

I've heard if your dehydrated not to drink so much water. I had a friend who went to the ER due to dehydration and the doctor suggested for him to drink pedialyte made for children. It helps rehydrate children, but it helps adults as well. I asked the doctor about water and he said something about the pedialyte, it has the same affect as a regular sports drink, but not as much sugar. In fact some althletes use it to rehydrate during training.

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-12 10:25:32 -0500 Report

thanks Wendy. That is the name, not Pedicare as I said below. If I remember right it was in the baby formula section and is often given to children with the runs so they don't get dehydrated. During the summer I also take cranberry in capsule form.

kittenpurr1
kittenpurr1 2011-04-11 18:24:26 -0500 Report

I agree with MewElla, certain circumstances, we need more than 8-10 glasses a day. There are times you can wash away electrolytes, but you have to drink a lot of water to do that. In the heat, you need to stay hydrated. When temps outside sky rocket, you need more water, it helps with blood pressure, too. I suggest vitamins, if you are drinking lots and lots of water, to keep the Potassium up you can eat 1/2 of a banana.

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-12 10:22:58 -0500 Report

Ok miss kitten, thanks. I did not think about washing away of electrolytes. I remember a few years back my doctor had me drinking something on the line of Pedicure, a sugarless version of Gatorade.

MewElla
MewElla 2011-04-11 17:59:01 -0500 Report

How much water do we need to drink per day-depends on many factors including your health, how active you are and where you live. No formula fits everyone. Everyday we lose water through breath, perspiration, urine, etc. In order to make our body function we need to replenish fluids by drinking and eating foods that contain water. In general, drs normally recommend 8-9 glasses of water ea day. Many people use this simple guideline of how much to drink. Check with your dr as to how much fluid you should be taking in..

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-12 10:20:31 -0500 Report

Thanks Mew! 95% of my liquid intake is water (not juice, tea, coffee, beer, brandy, whiskey …(those last 3 have long been gone from my diet). I did ask my doctor, and fool that he is, he said it depends! He added many of the things you listed and said, "We really don't know all the answers or even most of the answers in this area because there are too many variables" I nodded my head with understanding and he added "Just don't drink too much…or too little" He does well in his care for me. Thanks

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-12 10:15:12 -0500 Report

I am in the same boat with trace amounts of protein. I am just beginning to cut my meat portion size :(. It makes sense once your kidneys are damaged, but I still think the flushing idea is good. I read and respond to these as they come in, so there may be more wisdom as I travel up the page. Thanks for your input! Jim

CaliKo
CaliKo 2011-04-11 17:54:40 -0500 Report

Hi Jim, I was wondering this just last week because my yearly microalbumin test revealed trace amounts of protein, which may be the first early hint of kidney damage. So I've been trying to figure out what I need to do different or more diligently, and I was surprised to read about water being limited in those with kidney disease. It seems to be much more of an issue as kidney damage turns to kidney disease and dialysis. But I still haven't found any actual guidelines, just that at some point you would be working with a dietician and a doctor who would individualize fluid amount for you. So I'm drinking as I am thirsty, keeping more to water and less coffee or wine. Less salt. Only the amounts of meat that are on my meal plan. Trying to be sensible. I'm sure being outside a lot, you would need more. Dehydration is not a good thing. Let me know if you find any guidelines, and I'll do the same. Good luck!

donna62M
donna62M 2011-04-11 18:09:18 -0500 Report

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles…I had the same trouble in my second pregnance at the end…my microalbumin was 420…I know that the top level of normal then was 120…but because mine was caused by being pregnant…it went away after having her…My doc and I now keep an extraspecial watch onit.GOOD LUCK…thinking of you…

sam1376
sam1376 2011-04-11 17:14:47 -0500 Report

Look at your kidney as a machine, if works too much it will be tired

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-12 10:11:12 -0500 Report

I thought about this more last night. Don't ask me why I picked bleach, but I did. If I were foolish enough to ingest 1 oz of 6% bleach, my kidney would process the acid. If right after I ingested this, I came to my senses and drank 64 oz of water, my kidneys would process the water and bleach together, substantially reducing the potentcy of the bleach.

pkwillhoite
pkwillhoite 2011-04-11 16:28:00 -0500 Report

I would reall like to know the answer also… Its really interesting and Like you said I would like to be enlightened also. Thanks for the question!!

Jim Edwards
Jim Edwards 2011-04-11 16:45:34 -0500 Report

Rats! You don't have the answrer! :) The other thing that popped into my mind after I hit "send" was that from May until September I am outside alot here at camp. A few times I came close to dehydration. So, especially during those months I would think it to be more prudent to err on the side of drinking too much. We are talking about water here, not juices that contain sugar, or alcohol which contains sugar (and a lot of fun, at times), but water which is what our bodies are made from. I am full of questions in these areas! :)

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